@tactical-ochoa said in Ben 10 Reboot Discussion Part 1: Season 2:
@csgt Yes, the sequel shows certainly downplayed Kevin's powers, which is something that I wasn't fond of and found to not make much or any sense. Actually, no, Kevin's powers didn't really change in the sequel shows. Absorbing matter wasn't a change. It was an addition. (...) Kevin's powers weren't really downplayed. Stuff was just added to them in a way that didn't make much sense to me. Kevin's powers had always been focused on absorbing some form of energy and mutating from absorbing too much energy.
I'm really sorry, I didn't understand what you meant here because first you agreed with me that the sequels downplayed Kevin's powers, but then you disagreed.
What I was trying to say: Yes, in the sequels Kevin still technically could absorb energy, sure, he didn't lose his powers, but at the same time, he stopped using them (with very few exceptions, like the Ultimate Kevin arc). But what I'm saying is, don't look at what Kevin could do (absorb energy/matter), look at what he actually does with this power.
In the OS, Kevin:
- Turned into aliens (in "Framed", he turned into the exact same alien forms as Ben, and in "Kevin 11" when he mutated into a hybrid Heatblast and a hybrid Four Arms)
- Turned into amalgam alien forms ( in the end of "Framed" he turned into his classic almagam form fusing Ben's ten first aliens, stayed like that during "Grudge Match" and "Back With A Vengeance", and later in "Ken 10" he turned into another amalgam form, Kevin 11K)
Most of the time in the OS (except for the very beginning of "Kevin 11" where he used a bit of electricity) what we actually see is Kevin going alien.
While in the sequels most of the time what we see is him creating a shell of metal, rubber and other kinds of stuff around himself. We rarely see Kevin going alien like he used to in the OS (with a few exceptions, of course). That's why I said the alien side was downplayed and his powerset was changed.
Why the sequels did that? Because going alien was already Ben's thing, if they had kept Kevin using his powers like he did in the OS, it would be redudant and/or make Ben useless. So they used Kevin's powers in a completely different way.
That's what I refered to as a powerset change.
It nerfs Kevin into being somewhere around Ben's level (although, that is dependent on what aliens Kevin can use and whether or not he could splice them together into some amalgamation). Kevin having an Omnitrix limits his level of power to what he has access to; especially compared to Kevin's energy absorption ability, which allows Kevin to become more and more powerful the more energy he absorbs. It could kill at least most of the tension that comes from Ben and Kevin fighting each other because, again, Kevin having his own Omnitrix puts him around the same level that Ben is at, thus making Kevin less of a threat compared to him being able to absorb energy
Well, again, if with his Omnitrix Kevin can use aliens and if he can splice them together into amalgamations, then he is doing the same stuff he always did in the OS.
I agree with you, technically, Kevin's energy absorption ability allows Kevin to become more and more powerful the more energy he absorbs, but when in the OS did he actually presented a bigger threat to Ben by using his energy absorption powers to do something different than turn into an alien or an amalgamation of aliens? I honestly can't remember.
(although again, that is if Kevin's Omnitrix works the same way as Ben's Omnitrix, which I'm guessing is going to be the case in the reboot show).
My guess, initially, it will be the same as OS Kevin. Just like in Kevin 11 and Framed, Kevin initially only used single alien forms. From the end of Framed onwards, he used amalgam forms, so I guess later in the Reboot, his Omnitrix will allow him to use almagam forms too. Just a guess though.
And your example with Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch is terrible.
Alright, I will try a better example then. It's a bit obscure, so you might not be familiar with this. Spider-Gwen in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon. In the comics, she had full powers, in the cartoon she had a high tech suit to simulate Spider-Man's powers. http://thedailybugle.wikia.com/wiki/Spider-Gwen
Or a more mainstream example, Spider-Man himself in the first trilogy had organic web instead of web-shooters.
Of course, there is always a polemic with these changes, but I just want to show that things like this have been done before.
. Given what Rouleau said, I wouldn't even be surprised if Man of Action make Kevin a good guy again...if he even is going to be evil in the reboot show.
I guess he is, because of what I said earlier. Giving him an Omnitrixi and making him an ally would be kind of redudant in my opinion. If they wanted a second heroic Omnitrix user, they could have gone with Gwen, making her like Gwen 10, at least that way it would have the gender diversity. So I'm guessing he will be evil. Again, just a guess.
Also, Kevin doesn't need his own Omnitrix to further mirror Ben. They did that with Albedo and it didn't work as well as Kevin did in the Original Series. Albedo was just an evil Galvan with Ben's appearance and a replica of the original Omnitrix. That's not a proper, evil counterpart to Ben. Albedo was an entirely different character compared to Ben. OS Kevin was the true, ideal dark mirror image of Ben and OS Kevin never had his own Omnitrix during that time. Kevin paralleled Ben in some ways but also differed from Ben as well. Kevin was a reminder to Ben of what Ben could've become if it weren't for his first meeting with Kevin.
I completely agree with you there.
Kevin to Ben was like The Joker to Batman. Ben's view of Kevin was like Luke Skywalker's vision of Darth Vader on Dagobah in Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back. Do you see The Joker don some sort of uniform or battle suit that looks similar to Batman's outfit? No. Do you see Luke Skywalker wear a full armored suit like Vader does? No. Objects don't always present two characters being proper opposites to each other and I don't find that to be subtle either. It comes down to the characters themselves and their personalities and traits, which I find has a better chance of being more subtle. When symbolism and whatnot is shoved into the viewers' faces, usually it could end up being seen as intrusive and insulting of the viewers' intelligence. I find it better to be more subtle and put confidence in the viewers to be able to figure stuff out. Kevin doesn't need his own Omnitrix in order to be a better representation of being a dark mirror image of Ben and the Original Series is proof of that.
Alright, but you also have example of non-subtle opposite characters, and they work too.
Going back to Kevin's powers being removed and replaced by him having his own Omnitrix, taking away Kevin's powers does a lot more to Kevin than just change his power set. It changes Kevin as a character. In the context of the Original Series, Kevin was kicked out by his family because of his powers. Kevin was bullied and treated like a freak by others because of his powers. Kevin's mental instability and insanity as well as his psychopathic behavior was there because of his powers. Kevin's ability to absorb energy was a huge and long term fundamental aspect about him that made and defined Kevin for who he is. Take away those powers and Kevin isn't Kevin anymore. Take away those powers and you take away Kevin as a character.
I actually agree with you on that. Changing the powers do make Kevin a less complex character. But, despite that, MOA can still find other reasons for Kevin to be bullied or rejected by his family, if they actually want to work on his backstory. I believe that they can still keep his old personality (even if they don't fully develop his backstory). Considering that the sequel already changed Kevin's personality to make him a hero, if MOA at least keep the same personality Kevin had in the OS, I'm already satisfied.
