Best posts made by csgt

You have every right to dislike the fact that Omniverse retconned/ignored many things UAF had established before. But, to be fair, I gotta say UAF did to OS the exact same OV did to UAF. Dwayne and co retconned almost everything Man of Action created from Original Series.

Jetray never even got an appearance, since derrick didn't like him. Check. Many classic aliens, like XLR8, Upgrade, Wildvine and Grey Matter never showed up in UAF.
Retconing Kevin's backstory? Check. Alien Force actually was the first show to retcon Kevin's entire past.
Changing histories and backgrounds of people? Check. Example: Kevin and Gwen became aliens in UAF, when they were not aliens in OS. (By the way, Cooper was supposed to be a mutant in OS too)
Getting rid of the something he didn't like it instead of finding a purpose for it? Check. Original Earth Plumbers gone, and replaced with the Intergalactic Plumbers.

So, unfortunately, changing things is a common mistake most writers do. That's why I agree with Man of Action recent interview that labeled all the Ben 10 sequel shows as 'reboots' too. It's best to think of each series as a separate continuity.

With us all talking about a Ben 10 reboot made by another company not involving Cartoon Network, an idea came to my mind, something that I honestly think wouldn't be too difficult to happen. A comic book Ben 10 reboot. Not children comics based on the show, but a serious reboot.

Cartoon Network is owned by Warner, who also owns DC Comics. And DC Comics is already doing some rebooted comic book versions of cartoons aired by Cartoon Network, like Scooby-Doo and Flintstones (you can check it out)

Maybe we can get DC writers to make a badass comic book version of Ben 10. And make no mistake, comics nowadays are way more serious, darker and edgier than cartoons, and there would be room to explore a lot more of things.

1. Anyone can Die

Comics have no problem showing deaths of characters, while cartoons avoid this.
http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/styles/width_1280/public/9-3Deaths9.jpeg?itok=YgV7Qt2j
(Blue Beetle killed by Maxwell Lord)

2. Serious storylines

There are almost no silly storylines. Even in Scooby Doo newest version, Scooby Doo being a talking dog is explained by saying he was an experiment from the government to enhance animals. He was a failed experiment, because he was not good at fighting, but was saved by Shaggy from being put down.
http://www.readcomics.tv/scooby-apocalypse/chapter-1/35
http://www.readcomics.tv/scooby-apocalypse/chapter-1/36

3. Bwen

Although it's easy to see a lot of same-sex couples in comic books, cousin couples face a greater prejudice and are still very hard to find. BUT I think DC wouldn't be too afraid to make it happen. For example in Blackest Night, when Superboy (genetic clone of Superman) was possessed by the black ring, it was revealed that deep down he is actually attracted to Supergirl (Superman's cousin)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/36774/1125324-09_2.jpg
Nothing ever came out of it, but the Superboy/Supergirl pairing is not popular. However the Bwen pairing is hugely popular among the fandom, and with pressure from the fans, I think DC could even make it happen for real.

What do you guys think of the possibility of a Ben 10 comic book reboot?

Hi, guys! I don't know how many of you visit Fanfiction net regularly, so maybe a few of you already know about this story, but I would like to share it here too, if it's ok.

Watch Boy & Lucky Girl

Summary: 16-year-old Ben Tennyson finds a strange watch that can turn him into aliens. And Gwen has to make sure her doofus cousin doesn't get himself killed with it.

Interesting things about the story:

• There is an Alien Registration Act, some prejudice against aliens and terrorist aliens too. I tried to make a realistic take on a world where aliens are a thing.
• Gwen gets her magical powers pretty early in the story, and Verdona is not Ben and Gwen's paternal grandmother, she is Gwen's maternal grandmother, unrelated to Ben (explaining why Ben doesn't have magical powers like Gwen).
• I try to adapt episodes from the show every once in a while, I already adapted And Then There Were Ten (the Prologue), A Change of Face and Goodbye and Good Riddance. But it's a different take on the episodes, not a straight-forward adaptation.
• Ben and Gwen's relationship development takes center stage in the story. But even if you don't mind Bwen, I think there are enough elements to keep you hooked on the story anyway (But if you HATE Bwen, it's better not to read)

Problems about the story

• A few grammar errors. I'm brazilian, my english is not perfect, and I couldn't find a beta reader.
• I'm not very descriptive.
• Sometimes things feel a little rushed. While I don't think the romance parts are shoved down the readers' throats (cough Alien Force cough), I also know I could've handled some things better.

If you want to take a look, and give your opinion, suggestions or critic, I will greatly appreciate.

• The link is:
  https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12268392/1/Watch-Boy-Lucky-Girl

(If you want a link to the portuguese version, just ask me and I will put it here too)

I also don't hate the reboot.

Of course, I wanted it to be more serious and in a different company, but honestly, there are a few good things about the reboot:

• For the first time ever since the Original Series, we have Ben and Gwen interacting with each other properly again (In Alien Force Ben just played third wheel to Kevin and Gwen, and in Omniverse Gwen was put on a bus)
• Future episodes show that they will adapt plots from the sequel shows. "Villain Time" is "Hero Time", and "Bright Lights, Black Hearts" is All That Glitters. So I think the show might be tapping into some potential.
• I like the alien roster overall (Yeah, they messed up real bad with their version of Stinkfly and I didn't like changing Wildvines to be more human-like, but the others are cool)

There are a lot of bad things too, but I don't hate it.

@xlr8isbest I apologize if I misunderstood what you meant in your message then.

What I said about Gwevin, I wasn't actually implying you ship it or not. I was just meant that - rightfully so - nobody assumes any Gwevin shipper supports or promotes abusive relationships - even though in real life a relationship like that would undoubtely be seen as abusive considering the things Kevin did to Gwen - but at the same time everybody thinks that just because somebody supports Bwen, it means they are supporting or promoting incest. That is not true, especially considering that (1) We are talking about fiction here, not real life, and (2) Incest is a very broad definition, and is also used to refer to many kinds of relationships that I'm personally against.

Well, considering the country (a semi-fictional version of the USA) that Ben 10 takes place in, you can see that the Tennyson family is supposed to be weird there. Max Tennyson dated a lizard-like alien (Xylene) and Joel Tennyson married a sludge-like alien (Camille). I can't believe the people in Ben 10's universe wouldn't feel icky with these kinds of relationships either. So, definitely Bwen fits very well with the Tennysons' 'weird' relationship pattern in my opinion.

@Tactical-Ochoa gave you the solution then. You just have to stop watching any topics that you're not comfortable with. No need to leave the forum.

I would enjoy a more darker and edgier reboot as well, especially one that does not have to play things safe for the kids, with some of Ben's allies and villains dying, dealing with the psychological problems of a hero's life, not brushing away the subtext between Ben and Gwen, not changing Kevin from a psycho to a good guy for the sake of romance, ...

@Nikita--Kleutin the only way to explain the inconsistencies is to say that each series is set in a separate universe, because from one series to another (OS to AF/UA, and AF/UA to OV) there are plotholes that a whole alien ship armada could fly through LOL

@Rexfan1333 You mentioned the MCU, and I actually had an idea to write a fanfic about Ben 10 in the MCU. The Omnitrix would have one of the infinity stones (just like Loki's Scepter had one) and Gwen would be an Inhuman (if you watch Agents of SHIELD, which is also set in the MCU, you will understand what I'm talking about). I thought about starting from Age of Ultron, replacing Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch with Ben and Gwen. But ultimately I decided to write Watch Boy & Lucky Girl because mixing MCU characters would require more skill and talent than I have at the moment.

But as I said, I'm talking about real possibilities, and unfortunately, I don't think Ben 10 with Marvel is a realistic possibility.

And of course, in my comic book reboot idea Ben and Gwen wouldn't be kids, they would be at least teenagers.

I would add that Gwen also share similarities with another Peter Parker love interest: Felicia Hardy, a.k.a. the Black Cat. Both are "cat-themed", (Gwen wears a shirt with a cat logo in Original Series) and the first time Lucky Girl appears she has luck-based powers, just like Black Cat, and their costumes are very similar (black, cat mask).

So, Gwen Tennyson is like a mix of Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane Watson and Felicia Hardy.

@Omni-Triforcer said in Addressing the Ben 10 Reboot Part 3: Show/Episode Discussions:

MOA confirmed that kevin was always supposed to be redeemed.

Actually, MoA said Kevin and Charmcaster were always supposed to be “anti-hero foils to Ben and Gwen”, that's very different from redemption. Take X-Men comics as an example, Magneto is an anti-hero foil to Charles Xavier. Magneto can even do good sometimes and join forces with the X-Men, but he always retains his shady personality and never becomes a "good guy". Based on all the evidence from OS, I'm sure MoA wouldn't do anything remotely alike to what AF did, making Kevin into Ben's BFF and Gwen's boyfriend, and retconing almost everything from his past (Max and Kevin's dad were partners and friends? Max didn't even know Kevin in OS.)

I prefer Gwen.

In my opinion, Julie suffered a lot from being a satellite love interest, as I said in the Bwen-Gwevin topic, the writers apparently were only worried about Gwevin, and Julie was just there so they could show every once in a while that Ben had a girlfriend too. Maybe if they had paid more attention to her, I could see something more between her and Ben.

@Spookyohno Goodbye and Good Riddance had to be set in an alternate universe because Alien Force contradicts it. In Goodbye Ben's identity is exposed and in AF his identity is secret again. Otherwise, there is no problem admiting that Goodbye is part of the OS timeline.

@Ebomnitrix I think you're right, but I actually agree with Man of Action. Starting from AF, not only a lot of things from OS were retconed but also the whole dynamics of the series was changed from "Ben, his grandfather and his cousin" to "Kevin, his gilfriend and his friend", so considering that Man of Action are the original creators of Ben 10, they have every right to say "What those other guys did, it's a reboot, it's not a sequel to our work" (but of course they said that in a more polite way)

I would LOVE that.

@Tactical-Ochoa I love Little Moments and Breaking Point to death, it's probably the best stories I have ever read in my entire life (even though BP isn't finished), but I see them as more of a character study of Ben and Gwen than a sequel in OS style (Character study: a work of fiction in which the delineation of the central characters' personality is more important than the plot)

Of course, a character study is way better than butchering the characters personalities for the sake of the plot, like AF did (cough psychopath Kevin suddenly turned into a good guy cough)

But I know, the author was starting to touch the Highbreed storyline when Breaking Point went on hiatus, it would probably become more plot-heavy eventually.

@goodvibes1999 I don't think Gwevin will happen in the Reboot, because the people responsible for the Reboot - Man of Action - are the same writers from the Original Series. And in the Original Series, Kevin appears only in 5 out of 52 episodes: "Kevin 11", "Framed", "Grudge Match", "Back With a Vengeance" and "Ken 10".

In "Framed", Kevin tries to burn Gwen alive, and in "Back With A Vengeance", Kevin drops Gwen to die in the Null-Void, after hurting her.

"Ken 10" is set in the future, and in this episode Kevin was still a villain and had a son named Devlin (and obviously, Gwen wasn't the mother), a proof that the Original Series' writers never planned a redemption for him, much less a relationship between him and Gwen.

But since Kevin was UAF's Creator's Pet, so they retconned/ignored his past, redeemed him, turned him into a main character, and wrote a relationship between him and Gwen. I might be wrong, but I really really doubt the Original Series' crew would ever do something like this.

About the ship popularity in Brazil, I think Bwen is quite popular over here too. Eu sou brasileiro, e prefiro Bwen kkkkkkk

I'm fine with Ben/Kai and Ben/Charmcaster. I just dislike Ben/Julie because Julie was a satellite love interest and it was clear Ben/Julie was always in second place to Kevin/Gwen for the writers.

@andrew42

I agree with many things from this video, but I also think Kuro The Artist glossed over some things (mainly the viewership decline that led to AF's third season tonal shift). I will write here the comment I sent him:

"I feel the viewership decline from the two first seasons of Alien Force have a very clear reason: While I do agree with you that storytelling was better and at its prime, the characters simply... weren't. And a long-running franchise success is always because of its characters, not just a story, no matter how good.

You mentioned you can't picture Bloxx on the Original Show continuity, I agree with you. But I also can't picture Ben, Gwen and Kevin from Alien Force in the Original Show continuity. Back in the Original Show, Kevin was a total psycho who tried to kill both Ben and Gwen on several occasions and backstabbed Ben every time Ben offered him a chance. In Alien Force, they simply pretend Kevin was never that bad and quickly accept him into the team before the first episode is over. In Original Series, Gwen is a badass and smart girl. In Alien Force, Gwen's new personality is being an infatuated schoolgirl who likes to smell Kevin's sweaty handkerchief (Kevin's Big Score) and who pratically begs him to ask her out (All That Glitters). Ben was funny in the original show. While I do agree he should be more mature at 15, he could still have been funny (like Spider-Man), but he was way too serious, and took attitudes - like taking off the Omnitrix - that didn't fit his character and were never properly explained on the show. Besides, I don't think the new 10 aliens were as interesting as the first 10 aliens from the original show. They shouldn't have replaced ALL of them right off the bat.

So I do feel people simply saw that the characters from Alien Force didn't feel like the Classic characters and abandoned the show. Then, everything went downhill as CN desperately tried to bring those viewers back but only lost even more viewers."

@Rexfan1333 Yes, it would be nice too. But as I said, Warner owns both DC Comics and Cartoon Network, so it would be a lot easier to get a Ben 10 comic book from DC than a manga from another company. Like, it's something that I can see happening in the future, if we fans can make DC know that we would buy that.

@oldtaku_dd Well, it would be very out of character for Ben and Gwen to do this (but, well, it was completely out of character for Gwen to say "Why haven't you asked me out?" to a guy who had tried to kill her multiple times after just spending five episodes with him in the first season of Alien Force, so it all depends on what the writers want to do xD)

I think even if Gwen were to decide to break up with Kevin to pursue a relationship with Ben (no cheating), it would be enough reason for a mentally unstable Kevin to feel betrayed and try to kill both of them (again).

And in the OS original timeline, Kevin was enemies for life with Ben (Ken 10) and it had nothing to do with Gwen, so Kevin doesn't really need a good reason to hate Ben, he just does XD

Please, not Julie. Julie is the very definition of 'satellite love interest', a generic female character with a bland personality and no interesting traits who appeared every once in a while just to remind the audience that Ben had a girlfriend.

Kai is a slightly better option, but I still think there are better choices, like Gwen, Charmcaster, Looma... But I actually hope the Reboot stays away from romance. The dynamic between Ben and Gwen is great, and shoehorning love interests between them would probably be a mistake.

@Ebomnitrix Dwayne McDuffie didn't create Ben 10. The Man of Action team did, McDuffie had a very different vision for Ben 10 and retconned a lot of things for AF/UA that Man of Action had previously established in OS. I absolutely love Dwayne's work on Statick Shock and Justice League Unlimited (JLU is my favorite cartoon ever actually), but as other people here have said, I would have preferred a Ben 10 sequel by the hands of the original creators.

My answer to the question: I think there is a reason why the OS is the most popular series, and that reason is because from AF onwards a big part of the audience lost interest (I'm not talking about the hardcore fans here, I'm talking about casual friends that I know that stopped watching Ben 10 after the OS). AF storylines were amazing, but the new aliens were not as interesting as the Original Series' ones (with a few exceptions), there were a lot of retcons, and especially, the writers were in love with Kevin and made him the main star of the show, stealing the spotlight from Ben sometimes, and it didn't work out.

@Oldtaku_dd I don't think it turned out so well. Let's see the evidence:

1. With all the respect, Mcduffie and co messed up real bad with their retcons, and Omniverse had the thankless job of fixing it.
   Writer #1 "So Kevin's dad Devin Levin and Max Tennyson were partners? So why in the Original Series Max doesn't recognize Kevin nor do anything to look out for him - breaking the promise he had made to his partner?"
   Writer #2 "Well... Hm... Crap... Let's make Devin Levin a false memory implanted by Servantis on Max's head."
2. The justification "Kevin was insane, his crimes were not his fault" was just too little, too late.
   Plothole #1 It took seasons before they told us Kevin was insane as a child. Ben and Gwen forgave him BEFORE they knew "the powers made him do it". (The answer: this was a later retcon, at the beginning of Alien Force the writers weren't planning to do it.)
   Plothole #2 Is it really a justification? If so, why didn't the team give a second chance to Aggregor - after all, he's an Osmosian just like Kevin, his evil ways are not his fault.

3. We all know there was a huge viewership decline in the first two seasons of Alien Force, The writers subtle acknowledged the problem in-universe, but ignored it.
   Dialogue from Alien Force Season 3, episode The Final Battle
   Ben Tennyson: It's a sequel to the original show, but they kinda messed it up. It's like five years later and the bad guy, Kenko, has teamed up with the hero, Ishiyama. It's not very realistic, is all I'm saying.
   Kevin Levin: Aha...
   Ben Tennyson: Anyway, there's only five more of these before they cycle back to the original show. You'll see, it's way better.
   Later, UA lost even more viewers than AF, which led CN to take a different approach with Omniverse - and they got rid of Kevin as a part of the main cast. And now, they did cycle back to the Original Show with the Reboot, with Ben and Gwen back as the main heroes once again.
   So, even though many many fans like Gwevin and Hero!Kevin, I think we can say these concepts weren't very successful.

About Bwen not dying, well, it's not that people have different ideas about dating relatives - I know many people wouldn't support a relationship between cousin in real life, even though they ship it in fiction. And, do you see, for example, fans shipping Superman and his cousin Supergirl together? No. Bwen is actually one of the few popular pairings between relatives, and Gwevin didn't sink it.

I would love to read your "The Fall of Kevin Levin" fic! Do you have a profile on Fanfiction net?