The Identity and Traditional Roots of Ben 10



  • There is a lot that I typed here so feel free to take your time going through it.

    So for those of you that follow me around on the Ben 10 Club or Deviantart, then you should know about my review series that covers the episodes of the Ben 10 reboot. I've already discussed how the show is greatly flawed and plagued with numerous issues such as a mediocre art style, an out of place style of animations, terrible writing and storytelling, poorly implemented characters and villains, the central focus on comedy and the comparisons of the Ben 10 reboot with other shows such as Teen Titans Go!, the Powerpuff Girls reboot, and Cartoon Network's other recent shows, among other things about the Ben 10 reboot that holds it back in quality. Most of the comedy isn't even good but instead so poorly implemented. Now, unlike many others, I don't hate the Ben 10 reboot. I just don't like it. To me, the Ben 10 reboot just ranges between being average and mediocre. Speaking of the central focus to comedy, there is something about the Ben 10 reboot, and the franchise as a whole, that I haven't really covered and that is the identity and the traditional roots of the Ben 10 franchise.

    Before I get into that though, let's discuss the "identity and traditional roots" of any series. You can go ahead and make whatever other changes that you want but there is one thing that I've seen done and thus learned that you must NOT do is change the identity of said series; that you must NOT deviate from the traditional roots and formula of said series. Why? Because that is what makes that series unique and stand out the most in and that is what people identify said series as. Let's point out a few examples.

    First off is Star Wars. When Star Wars: The Force Awakens came out, many criticized it for being quite similar to Star Wars: A New Hope. YouTube film reviewer, Chris Stuckmann, goes into great depth in regards to this criticism and why it's fine and beneficial for The Force Awakens to be so similar to A New Hope. It was intended to follow the traditional formula of Star Wars. I'll leave a link to the video that Chris Stuckmann made about The Force Awakens as he properly explains this very well. Hell, for any of you that think that the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy is very different from the Original Trilogy, you'd be surprised after finding out how similar they really are to each other. You'll also be surprised as to how similar each of the Indiana Jones films are to each other as well except for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, which explains quite a lot about why so many people don't like that film.

    Chris Stuckmann's Star Wars Analysis video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbaliPyihCY

    Let's go onto another series that, unlike Star Wars, had deviated from its traditional formula and thus faced major struggles as a result of it: the Resident Evil series. The first few Resident Evil games were identified most by their exploration, puzzle solving, the management of necessary supplies, the struggle to survive against very dangerous and monstrous enemies, horror, vulnerability, isolation, mystery, etc. That is what Resident Evil was most identified as and what many find most memorable about Resident Evil. After Resident Evil 4, however, is when the series took a shift that put it through quite the struggling years; especially when it came to Resident Evil 6. It was at that time where the series diverted from being survival horror and became more of a generic action series that tried and failed to be more like Call of Duty. That's an unfortunate trend that the video game industry is currently going through right now where as a result of Call of Duty's massive success, more game companies made the stupid decision to make their games more like Call of Duty and Resident Evil 6 was no exception to that. There were some exceptions to this such as Resident Evil Revelations (which is seen as one of the best Resident Evil games out there) and less notably Revelations 2 but that was what Resident Evil largely became now...until Resident Evil 7 came in. Now the game isn't out yet, but will be soon, but Resident Evil 7 is a prominent example of the series returning back to its traditional roots and formula; returning back to what Resident Evil is best identified as. For those who don't know, Resident Evil 7's developers are taking major inspiration from the very first Resident Evil game made back in 1996 and from what we already know about Resident Evil 7, it very much shows all the way down to the unique and untraditional electrocardiogram used to indicate the main character's health. Resident Evil 7 returns the series back to its traditional roots and true identity and as such is receiving much praise for that as this is something that much of the Resident Evil fanbase wanted for Resident Evil to make a return to. Now yeah, plenty of people do complain about the first person view that Resident Evil 7 is taking but I'm actually very much fine with this because it looks like the developers are doing a good job of implementing that gameplay style. Plenty of people also complain about the Baker family just being a bunch of infected, psychopathic hillbillies but plenty of people, myself included, also praise the Baker family for having such great personalities and mystery that helps give them some great potential as villains. Basically, these factors also adds up to Resident Evil 7 also taking bold risks alongside returning to the traditional roots and formula of the Resident Evil series. It also helps that Resident Evil 7 and its developers are well aware of the type of game that it is. Jim Sterling had made a video noting the self awareness of Resident Evil 4 and how it makes that game brilliant. I'll leave a link to his video on here as well. Resident Evil 7 shows this level of self awareness as well. When a series and its development teams are well aware of what it is, that can benefit it greatly if done right and knowing what identifies said series at its best is what's usually involved in such a level of self awareness. Star Wars is Star Wars, Indiana Jones is Indiana Jones, Resident Evil is Resident Evil, Doom is Doom, Battlefield is Battlefield, and so on.

    Jim Sterling's Resident Evil 4 analysis video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tLG6V_nUTM

    As some more examples to provide, here is a video by the Nostalgia Critic where he points out his Top 11 Best Film Sequels. Pay good attention to how many, if not all, of the film sequels that he mentions retain what defined and identified the originals the most while also taking new approaches to them as well.

    Nostalgia Critic's Top 11 Sequels video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8qwvDjsqsA

    One thing to take note of though is that maintaining the identity and traditional roots of a series is one major component to making a high quality entry for said series but it's not the key to making a good series. There are still other factors such as good writing and storytelling, special effects, characters, etc that have to be taken into consideration as well. Going back to Star Wars, even though the Prequel Trilogy follows the traditional Star Wars formula, there are many factors in regards to the Prequel Trilogy that made them infamous and looked down upon by fans and viewers of Star Wars.

    Alright, now that all of that is out of the way, let's finally focus on the Ben 10 reboot and the Ben 10 franchise as a whole. When the Original Series came out, it built up the very identity that Ben 10 was, and still is, best known for. Action with some comedic moments, story, mystery, the way that Ben and Gwen as characters and their relationship and dynamic were implemented (for more on that, I'll post the link to my Bwen page on the Ben 10 Club), the mix of Sci-Fi and fantasy when it comes to alien life and the Omnitrix and the use of magic, a mix of light and dark moments, the more anime-like feel to the show, etc. One way to sum up the Original Series was that it's like a Japanese anime. Another way to sum up the Original Series as well was that it was also similar to a Marvel series, which makes a lot of sense since that Man of Action were once former Marvel writers and artists. I even made an entire topic page comparing Ben and Gwen Tennyson to the Spider-Man characters, Peter Parker, Gwen Stacy, and Mary Jane Watson, which I will also leave a link to on here as well. Overall, the Original Series was well aware of the type of show that it was.

    Bwen topic page
    http://ben10club.org/topic/26/bwen

    Ben 10 and Spider-Man character comparisons
    http://ben10club.org/topic/99/ben-10-and-spider-man-main-character-comparisons-analysis

    When the Ben 10 sequel shows came in, things went downhill and this change in the identity of Ben 10 contributed greatly to this. At that point, Ben 10 became one of the most successful shows on Cartoon Network and Cartoon Network wanted to take advantage of that success by making sequels that were more intended on being cash grabs. The creative disputes and disagreements between Cartoon Network and Man of Action leading to Man of Action being removed from any further development of the Ben 10 franchise contributed to the major mistreatment that the Ben 10 franchise then experienced and the fanbase then witnessed. The franchise was handed off to different creators that really didn't know what they were really dealing with when it comes to Ben 10; they didn't really know what they were doing. As each new entry to the Ben 10 franchise came in, Ben 10 became less of "Ben 10" and more of "not Ben 10."

    Alien Force can be considered arguably good but some of the biggest problems that revolved around that show were that it was too dark and serious. There was also a change in how the characters were portrayed as that further impacted the identity of Ben 10 in a negative way. Gwen retconned into being half alien removed much of the fantasy and mystical aspects of Ben 10 and shifted things too far towards the Sci-Fi side of things. The Plumbers retconned to being an intergalactic law enforcement agency removed much of the mystery with the Ben 10 universe; especially in regards to the Plumbers. Kevin's badly rushed transition to being a good guy and his badly rushed established relationship with Gwen tampered with the relationship and dynamic between Ben and Gwen as well as them as characters (again, this is explained in my Bwen page). Ultimate Alien tried to go back to the traditional roots of Ben 10, which didn't work out well considering that you can't really do something like that if you haven't even watched the Original Series, something that I recall Dwayne McDuffie, who worked on Ben 10 Alien Force and Ultimate Alien, mentioning on some forum page years back. They brought in more comedy but that was pretty much as far as they went and could have gone even farther in certain moments of the show, but the show writers held back on that (such as Kevin's mutation at the end of Ultimate Alien's first season, which they could've took all the way to make Kevin a villain again but they didn't do). By the end, Ultimate Alien ended up making even more changes to the identity of the franchise, thus further harming its quality. Alien Force was the start of the Ben 10 franchise going downhill but Ultimate Alien really kicked things into gear on that. Overall, Alien Force and Ultimate Alien didn't really felt like Ben 10. They were more like watching a DC animated show than a Ben 10 show, which gave Alien Force and Ultimate Alien the feel of being so generic unlike the Original Series and many fans and viewers saw that as well.

    Omniverse was, once again, another "attempt" (it's in quotes for a reason) to go back to the original identity of Ben 10, resulting in even further changes in the identity of the franchise. Now things go even further to the comedy route and more often ended up being more light-hearted then it should be. Gwen gets replaced by Rook, thus further damaging Ben and Gwen's dynamic and further tampering with Ben and Gwen as characters (again, go to the Bwen page for an explanation on that). There is no longer an anime-like feel to the series and Ben 10 went into more of a cartoon feel with an art style and style of animations that is just so out of place in a Ben 10 show. Some of the alternate universe stuff was pretty neat but the alternate universe moments also felt more gimmicky as well. Didn't help that there were even more retcons made that further made the series continuity even more of a mess. Omniverse just further ended up misidentifying what Ben 10 truly was and what made Ben 10 at its best.

    Now we get to the reboot, which at this point has deviated the farthest away from what Ben 10 is identified most with than any other series in the franchise. Man of Action had mentioned how the show was returning to the traditional roots of Ben 10 with this 2016 reboot. This is not a return to the traditional roots of Ben 10. Going back to the summer road trip premise of the Original Series is not a return to Ben 10's true identity. Reusing elements of the Original Series is not a return to what made Ben 10 at its best. This is called making a remake, which is what this 2016 iteration of Ben 10 is most identified as. Not to mention the even further push to an even more cartoonish feel and comedic focus that was directed with this reboot among other things. The major changes to Gwen as a character and Ben's impulsive and fun-loving side being even further exaggerated once again tampers with how Ben and Gwen are as character and their relationship and dynamic with each other. Any well established villains in the previous shows also received major changes to them in this reboot that more so just causes more harm to them than good. As far as I could tell, there isn't even a story arc with this reboot, which is what the Ben 10 franchise has been doing ever since the Original Series. Each episode has been more of a monster-of-the-week filler type episode than actual story and character driven episodes that were offered with the Original Series. "Riding the Storm Out" supposedly introduces a story arc but so far no follow ups to that have been made and we're already half way through the first season. That's 20 episodes and yet no story arc. At least to me, the Ben 10 reboot is not Ben 10. It may have the name, characters, aliens, etc but this isn't Ben 10. It's the farthest from what made Ben 10 at it's best, made for the purpose of just selling more toys. I believe in one of my episode reviews I mentioned an episode of the RebelTaxi podcast where I believe Nolan ranted about the Ben 10 reboot, mentioning how it's so similar to Teen Titans Go!. I very much agree on that. 2016's Ben 10 is not Ben 10. As many have joked on, this is Ben 10 Go!. It doesn't help either that the Ben 10 reboot also does what the Powerpuff Girls reboot does and reference memes and pop culture that's already outdated. It's not as prevalent but it is there. I believe I recall from when Pan-Pizza reviewed the Powerpuff Girls reboot, he makes a point where the more you "modernize" a show, the more outdated it becomes and that's the case with the Ben 10 reboot as well. Even when the show tries to create its own memes, they're already outdated and forgotten.

    People seem to try and justify this by arguing that it's for the new generation of kids. The excuse that this show is meant for the new generation of kids doesn't work here. I have seen plenty of cases of those from the "new generation" having seen the Original Series and very much found themselves enjoying it. Just because this show is made for the new generation of kids doesn't mean that the identity has to be changed. It doesn't mean that Ben 10 must divert even further away from its traditional roots. I linked that video by the Nostalgia Critic. He mentions how Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back is still being watched to this day by kids. An almost 37 year old film is still being watched today by kids and this is going to continue onwards for who knows how long. Some of the best cartoons out there were made to be for anyone; to be timeless classics that could still be enjoyed today by old and new generations.

    Like I said before, you can take any series and make whatever changes you like to it but there is one thing about any series that you can't change and that is its identity and traditional roots, no matter what the excuses are. What can be done is to make improvements to said identity and traditional roots and formula. Not change it but improve it. In order to take the Ben 10 franchise and turn things around for the better, the identity and traditional roots and formula of the Original Series needs to make a return. To bring back the action (with some comedic elements), the mystery, the signature dynamic between Ben and Gwen, the mix of Sci-Fi and mystical and magical fantasy, the anime-like feel, the light and dark moments, the story and character driven arcs and plots, etc. To take everything that made the Original Series great and fits into its identity and traditional roots and formula and take it a step further. Many fans and viewers opted for wanting a Ben 10,000/Ken 10 show. I opted for wanting to go for a reboot that acts as a sequel to the Original Series. Either of those directions can work greatly for this. Not a remake that vastly misunderstands on what made Ben 10 at its best.



  • @Tactical-Ochoa But the original franchise already ended so it's not coming back. I honestly think the reboot isn't that bad, it seems like no one will accept this series and having the series get cancelled will really hurt Ben 10, I want to see Ben 10 be great in people's eyes again.



  • @Rexfan1333 Why do you think I made this topic page? I'm not referring to the continuity of the previous shows. I'm referring to the identity, traditional roots and formula, and style of Ben 10. Not the continuity. I'm also explaining what went wrong and how to make things right.



  • @Tactical-Ochoa I understand what you are saying, but the series can still improve, not saying everything you are saying is wrong or not, but the problem with CN (and even maybe MOA) is that they want to profit off of Ben 10 which gives the franchise a bad name which is sad, Ben 10 has lots of potential and it is a shame to see it wasted even if I like the reboot. Sucks no one can do anything about it because this franchise diserves so much better in so many ways.



  • @Rexfan1333 And I make topic pages like this one to explain how to improve the franchise. I know that the Ben 10 franchise can improve. We all know this. I'm explaining how that can be done. The problem is that it's not improving. It's getting worse. I'm providing my best answers to the problem.



  • @Tactical-Ochoa I wouldn't say series is getting worse, but the problem is that CN doesn't care about Ben 10 anymore other than using the series as a way to profit off it which upsets me to no end. I honestly don't think spreading your opinion about the reboot will do anything and that it just not going to change the reboot, this is aimed toward children and not us which sucks, but I think either getting MOA's attention and telling them how to improve and do something about it. I'm sick of the mistrearment of this series by CN and want to see it thrive agian because it has a amazing concept and idea that people need to see.



  • @Rexfan1333 It's getting worse.



  • @Tactical-Ochoa CN's treatment to there shows are getting way worse, even Steven Universe could possibly get cancelled by them because they thinking silly and stupid comides are better.


  • Ben 10 Fans

    I think the problem with this series is, they're trying to push more into being a kid friendly tone. What Dwayne did was trying to make it for older audiences to like it, and it mostly worked but at the same time it kept pushing away to what it really is, which some people don't seem to care. Most of Ben 10's fanbase is based off either OS or UAF. The show has lacked mystery since UAF yes, but there is still so much we need and more to grow before this franchise can become a hit again. Omniverse did do some redeeming yes, but at the same time didn't do any good, I know a lot of you hated the arc with the Rooters, but it did do some good to Kevin and the Plumbers Helpers, outside Alan, because Alan wasn't really needed for an arc like this, but it does help answer the background to Kevin and the PH's, the only thing we're missing is how Kevin gets out of the Null Void, or how Ben removes the Omnitrix. What Alien Force should've done is revealed why Ben removed it, and put him in a place with why Ben got lead into those events and so forth, originally OV decided Malware was going to be the case and revolve around Khyber, Malware and Psychobos for 40 episodes, but then everything got changed by the network. The more I keep thinking about it, its the network's fault for not giving Ben 10 the creative freedom they need in order to make this series good, they can't keep over exaggerating at what's too scary for kids and etc, CN made a very big mistake in the 2010s and that was cutting the 9-14 demographic to 6-12, despite the fact it was a channel for most people, they over pushed the channel to having shows that revolved around comedy, and like I said, the more they tried that, the more they failed. Kevin shouldn't have been a mutant, and Gwen shouldn't have been an alien, the only issue here is fixing Gwen because of all the talk of mana and most importantly Verdona, you can try it with a Reboot but that's also not going anywhere. The bright side with the creators of Omniverse, despite half the crew of being from UAF, is that some people actually watched Ben 10 and some of UAF, and its because of that we got a little more familiar with places from OS than UAF in Omniverse.

    Now here's what I think we need the next time we get a Ben 10 show

    1. The over changes and retcons need to stop and focus on what OS and UAF have been about. Forcing more changes down our backs and ignoring everything is what's going to make everything complicated for a Ben 10 series or a universe, we can ignore minor things but not the things the creators or fans hate cause that's a pain in the ass to deal with, we can ignore it in the show but you can't retcon it.
    2. Don't overshadow Ben with Gwen and Kevin, The reason I like Omniverse a little more is because Ben and Rook's dynamic made more sense and nobody was overshadowing anybody, Gwen and Kevin were a big issue during UAF's run, and that's because they overshadowed Ben and the fan base were more fans of those two than Ben or his aliens, and Omniverse cutting them out for awhile was smart. Even in OS nobody was overshadowed because Grandpa Max and Gwen actually managed to fit as main characters, grouping with Ben on several occasions. If we're going to have a cast of characters or even a larger amount, it should be summoned down like Total Drama Island when they were focusing on 22-25 main characters throughout its run (mainly describing its first 3 seasons).
    3. Be unique, even with your formula, always be unique and different so it stands out.
    4. The workers actually respect each series as both individuals and its sequels and don't rush into cancelling out a sequel. Even if a worker hasn't seen it before, it should still be respected and treated with care.
    5. Make the show more close to Jojo and Pokemon XY/XYZ with how its treated in care and worked with perfectly, like even the little moments or big moments are treated with care so at least do the same with that.

    This is all I can think of, I'll add more when I manage to come up with more. But ye.



  • @Ebomnitrix Nice.

    One thing that I want to point out though was that Gwen and Kevin weren't the problem. Just Kevin. There were also significant problems with Ben being partnered with Rook as well. Max and Gwen worked fine in the Original Series because Max mentors both Ben and Gwen, helping to make them better characters and heroes, while Ben and Gwen balance each other out. I already explained why so just go to the link below for the "why" of my point.
    http://ben10club.org/topic/26/bwen/19


  • Ben 10 Fans

    You're also forgetting @Tactical-Ochoa that Ben and Rook's partnership was designed as both opposites and a buddy-cop sort of thing. Rook and Ben are the opposites of most standards, Ben's irresponsible attitude, acts first before questions, more loose, he's human and relies on his powers. Rook however guides Ben on the missions, thinks first before knowing what to do, he's by the book, he's alien (and even acts like it, including the contractions and not knowing most Earth-terms.)
    Ben and Rook just fit to me, same with Max and Gwen.
    I know you're more of an OS fan than a fan for any other series, but Ben's relationship with Rook makes sense, despite having maybe a few flaws here and there, but the dynamic still fits in my opinion.
    It also helped what made Omniverse unique, Gwen decided to be her own person and explore more of herself, well at the start she planned to... (which should've been more explored in later episodes, along with appearing less instead of twice a season), and Max was always there at the Plumbers base nearby if he ever needed anything. The only issue I had was Max stopped acting like he was retired halfway in the show and more like he was running the base, like what happened to that? I mean I can probably guess he was living there since the events of UAF (also love the reference to Alien Swarm with what they did with the Plumbers base), and things just happened, I don't know? But what I enjoyed was after UAF's lack of Grandpa Max he was in almost every episode and Ben could still rely on him whenever he needed him, so that worked out perfectly.
    But the point I'm getting at is both dynamics were pretty much great.
    I think another thing I can point out about an Omniverse flaw was there were too many team ups in certain episodes, it was always Gwen and Kevin appearing in 2 of the episodes each arc, unless they're in a 2 parter in which case it takes up an appearance of that later arc. And they teamed up too much with the Plumbers instead of doing their own thing, I mean certain episodes made sense, while others just didn't. I just wish they handled things more better in the show than team ups over and over.



  • @Ebomnitrix You make a good point with that. What I'm referring to is in regards to Ben's behavior and whatsoever. One of the major complaints of Omniverse is the way at which Ben normally behaved. His fun and impulsive side was exaggerated too much to the point where he acted too immature and out of line quite often even during missions. Rook may be better trained than Ben but he's not as outspoken and authoritative as Gwen is and Max isn't around enough to keep Ben in line either since that he's always at the Plumber Base while Ben is out doing stuff. I get the whole "buddy-cop" thing between Ben and Rook but the problem with that was that Ben isn't designed as a character for something like that. Yes, there are moments where it does work but there are plenty of moments where it doesn't work. Can they still do the "buddy-cop" approach with Ben and Rook? Yes. The one thing that would have to be done though, as I explained before, is to make Rook a supporting character and not a main character.

    As I explained before, Ben and Gwen worked much better because they were designed to balance each other out. They were designed to suit and fit each other. They were designed too work off of each other very well. They balance each other out and it's major key aspects like that that proves that Ben and Gwen have the best relationship in the franchise over other characters. As I explained before, the series is about Ben and Gwen. Not Gwen and Kevin, not Ben and Julie, not Ben and Rook, etc. When it comes to characters, the series is about Ben and Gwen and that's how it should be. In order for Ben to work, Gwen has to be there to keep Ben in line. In order for Gwen to work, Ben has to be there to allow her to relax. Ben lacks focus due to his impulsive behavior so Gwen gives him the focus that he needs. Gwen works too hard in her life and just at least for once needs to have moments in her life where she could just take a step back, relax, and have fun and Ben gives her that. Ben needs Gwen and Gwen needs Ben in order for them and their lives to be balanced out. Kevin can't step in because he interferes with that balance and Gwen can't leave, like she did in Omniverse, because she NEEDS to have Ben around. They both benefit off of each other. That's why I said on my Bwen page on how Gwen is just as equally important to the Ben 10 series as Ben is.

    Another thing to mention is that you state how in Omniverse, Gwen decides to be her own person and explore more of herself. Here's the thing, Gwen is already her own person. She has been in the Original Series and in the Original Series she already explored more of herself. She wouldn't be Gwen Tennyson if that wasn't the case. This was shown in the series through moments such as Gwen learning magic, Lucky Girl, her capabilities to hold her own even without magic in a battle, her outspoken nature, etc. She doesn't need to go out and be her own person because even when she's hanging out with Ben, Gwen is already her own person and has already explored more of herself in the Original Series. After all, it is a major aspect of a character going through character development as well. There isn't much of a point in doing and achieving something if you already did that before.

    Like I said, Ben and Rook can work but it overall really doesn't make sense if it's just about Ben and Rook. Like I said before, Gwen needs to be a main character. She needs to be there alongside Ben. She needs to have Ben around with her. Having Ben with her is what helps benefit Gwen as a character and vice versa. In Omniverse, Gwen needs to be in Rook's place as a main character while Rook needs to be in Gwen's place as a supporting character. As long as Rook, Kevin, or whoever else doesn't interfere with that very balance, connection, and dynamic between Ben and Gwen and the series just has Ben and Gwen work off of each other the way they're supposed and designed to, then things will work just fine and Ben can still have that "buddy-cop" partnership with Rook as well and could work even better than what was shown because Gwen would be there to keep Ben in line and focused, thus allowing for Ben and Rook to work together better as well.



  • @Tactical-Ochoa But would that not make Ben his own character with Gwen always keeping him in line? Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with the whole Gwen and Ben partnership as well as working together as characters, but Ben has to learn things on his own without Gwen at some point, even Gwen as well showing that they both have flaws and that they can overcome those flaws as characters and heroes, I honestly want to see Ben fight and develop on his own with out Gwen, Grandpa Max, and other characters to show he's maturing as a character and hero, I'm cool with the Ben and Gwen partnership, but would also like to see them grow as individuals. I hope that makes sense.



  • @Rexfan1333 The answer to your question is "no." Ben is also his own character that explores more of himself. Much like with Gwen, this had also already happened with Ben in the Original Series as well. Otherwise, much like how Gwen wouldn't be Gwen, Ben wouldn't be Ben. Ben and Gwen are their own type of characters and they both had gone through significant character development both on their own and together.



  • @Tactical-Ochoa It doesn't feel that way to me, but I feel the OS has flaws with Ben and Gwen's constant arguing that never went anywhere and just felt unnecessary to me, I like the idea of the reboot having them get along, but still not agree to things which feels realistic to me. I understand they need each other, but I want to see them grow as heroes and characters aswell.



  • @Rexfan1333 And as I stated, that is what happened. The Original Series showed that Ben and Gwen do need each other while also showing them grow as heroes and characters. What you're asking for with Ben and Gwen already happened. It was already done.

    As for Ben and Gwen's constant arguing that never went anywhere, it very much was necessary because that is part of the show portraying and expressing their relationship and how it developed over time. At the start of the series, Ben and Gwen don't get along with each other. They were constantly at each other's throats. They can't stand each other. They don't like each other. However, as the series progressed, Ben and Gwen's relationship developed and improved over time. Around the midpoint of the Original Series, Ben and Gwen were able to tolerate each other better. They still argued often but they weren't at each other's throats. By the end of the series, Ben and Gwen grew and developed to help each other, to care for each other, to like each other. This is part of them developing as characters. They started off in one position at the beginning and ended up in a different position at the end. That is another point that shows why Ben and Gwen's relationship and dynamic worked so well. Their relationship improved. This isn't something that can be done overnight. It's something that requires time. Ben and Gwen's constant arguing may feel unnecessary to you but in the grand scheme of things with them as characters and their relationship and dynamic with each other, it very much is necessary.

    I also like the idea of Ben and Gwen getting along with each other but the problem with the reboot is that they're already getting along with each other. They already like each other. Because of that, their relationship doesn't feel as satisfying and significant in the reboot as it was in the Original Series. Also, because Ben and Gwen started off in the reboot already being good with each other, there isn't much room for their relationship to improve and develop, if not no room at all, because they already have a good relationship with each other. There's no need to further improve their relationship at that point and as a result, it makes Ben and Gwen much less developed as characters as they were in the Original Series. It's not good character development if they are already in a good relationship with each other. It's better for them to not like each other so that when they do eventually like each other, it'll provide a more satisfying and significant impact to the series and Ben and Gwen as characters.

    Overall, Ben and Gwen's relationship and dynamic is much better portrayed and implemented in the Original Series than in the reboot. The Original Series did a much better job with Ben and Gwen's relationship and dynamic with each other than the reboot. The Original Series did a much better job of developing and improving Ben and Gwen as characters than in the reboot. Again, what you're asking for with Ben and Gwen has already been done in the Original Series in a much better ideal and suitable way.



  • @Tactical-Ochoa I still feel they could've done a better job at it though, even the OS didn't do the relationship as perfect as they should have done and just felt like the fight scenes were more important (I love action more than the next guy, but even too much of it can get boring) and not the characters development. This is the reason why Ben 10 should go to Studio Trigger because they know how characters should work because the realtionship between Senketsu and Ryuko (as well as Mako and Ryoko) was beautifully done and I can see it work really well with Ben 10. I really want Studio Trigger to buy the rights to Ben 10, this has to happen.



  • @Rexfan1333 It doesn't have to be perfect. Just at least good. If you expect something to be perfect, you're going to be met with disappointment. The Original Series did a great job implementing Ben and Gwen's relationship. Could it have done better? Yes but the same can go for anything. Overall, it did just fine, it was done in a great way, and it worked well for the series and the characters. At that point, not much more should be done with it. It's fine as it is.



  • @Tactical-Ochoa I know what you mean, but it still has it's own issues just like the sequels and the reboot, they are not perfect, but if you take the ideas and improve them by studying them it will be a masterpiece, If I owned Ben 10 it will be a superhero drama with lots of real life situations like Ben dealing with fear as well as breaking down from time to time because it's to much dealing with being a hero as well as being a kid that will do whatever it takes to protect people from dying and being injured. It will possible be a lot of death as well.



  • @Tactical-Ochoa I also found an amazing fanfiction that is close to what I want about a Ben 10 revival, it's called Watch Boy & Lucky Girl and I does a great job at giving the characters a story as well as cameos of sequel characters. Eve though it's a Bwen story, I love it because it still has the same idea, but expands on it.