Ben 10 Reboot Discussion Part 1: Season 2

[Ungrateful-Wolf]

I am just saying that this isn't the first time the franchise did a "a gimmick" like this one. They didn't change what the Omnitrix was, but some of the things it had in the way it worked.
I think that by "The Omnitrix is now a gateway", they mean to say that Shock Rock did something in the Omnitrix that forced it to become a portal, a teleporter or some other thing he could use to conquer the world by bringing his army to Earth, like when Ben got transported in the Null Void without his hand because of Sunder's energy weapon. It's not like Azmuth ever intended it to do that, that's just how it reacted when someone messed with it.
The Omnitrix is one of the most advanced devices in the galaxy, it's not far-fetched to imagine that someone with enough intelligence and skill (like Albedo and Psychobos) could modify it to make it do something it didn't originally have. The Omni-Enhancements and Ultimate forms are a good example of that since Azmuth probably didn't intend neither one or the other, since they were features Ben and Albedo added later on.
And at least, he's using it in a relatively believable manner as a way for his army to arrive on Earth, not to break through time and space to reach his destination like Eon did with the Hands of Armageddon in "Ben 10,000 returns" by messing with Ben and Ultimate Ben's watches.

[Tactical Ochoa]

@ungrateful-wolf And you know what, I hope that this really is nothing more than just a one-time-only thing. Part of me just doubts that given what Cartoon Network Studios and Man of Action have done with the rest of the reboot show.

[Tactical Ochoa]

Wasn't there supposed to be some new (well, "new" since that they aired internationally first yet haven't aired in the US yet) episodes of the Ben 10 reboot that were supposed to air in the US a couple of days ago on July 30th?

[james]

Yes there were some episodes that were supposed to air on July 30.

[Tactical Ochoa]

@james Ok. CN obviously changed that then because looking at CN Schedule Archive's schedule for this week, those episodes definitely did not air.

[Tactical Ochoa]

Also, for anyone that hasn't seen this yet and are interested, last week I posted my newest article that covers Charmcaster and what I think are ways to help fix and improve her and overall make her a much better character.

https://ben10club.org/topic/387/ben-10-how-to-fix-and-improve-charmcaster

[jordancon2000]

Games relating to the Season 2 Finale: https://www.ben10-omnitrix.com/africa/

Season 3 Teaser w/ New Alien: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiHelomm-Ws

[jordancon2000]

New episodes air Sept. 10-14:
Sept. 10 - Vote Zombozo & Drone On
Sept. 11 - Safari Sa'Bad & The Nature of Things
Sept. 12 - The Sound and the Furry & Reststop Roustabout
Sept. 13 - That's the Stuff & The Feels
Sept. 14 - Past Aliens Present & Dreamtime
http://www.thefutoncritic.com/showatch/ben-10/listings/

[jordancon2000]

Season 2 Finale: Innervasion will premiere on CN Asia on Sept. 22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqUeudUQRh8

[jondennison72]

I wonder when they're gonna show the 5 part of Ben 10 Reboot season 2 Finale "Innervasion" when it aired on Youtube.com or Cartoon Network?

[Ungrateful-Wolf]

They did, we simply missed it

[Offbeatcat]

Reboots are not tied to previous series canon. This is a new universe, and if they want to turn the omnitrix into an inter-dimensional gateway for a plot, they can do that. It may be strange, but if we give the show a proper chance, it might be interesting.

[Tactical Ochoa]

@offbeatcat Plenty of people, including me, already gave the reboot show a proper chance and yet ratings for the show are still low and from what I've seen, many or most people don't find it to be a good show.

And sure, if they want to turn the Omnitrix into an inter-dimensional gateway, they can...but should they do that? Should they do that to the Omnitrix? Should they introduce that into the show? Is it something that the show needs? Is it something that the franchise needs? There's a lot of things that can be done in a show/movie/video game/etc. but shouldn't be done. They can add Shock Rock to the show if they want to but they shouldn't have because Shock Rock is just another electric and energy based alien and we already had many other of those types of aliens introduced into the franchise already. Shock Rock is an unnecessary gimmick that's really only meant to sell more merchandise and adds little to nothing to the show that we haven't seen before. It's not just Ben 10 either. Doom (2016) almost became just another generic shooter reminiscent of games such as Call of Duty but id Software realized that that's a direction that shouldn't be taken for Doom and thus they went with the game that we got instead...and it worked out very well for them and us. Capcom could've continued with having the Resident Evil franchise be action-oriented but due to the reception of plenty of the action-oriented Resident Evil games, Capcom realized that they needed to go back to survival horror with Resident Evil 7 and it worked out well for them and for Resident Evil fans. Again, Man of Action and Cartoon Network Studios can do a lot of things and go down all sorts of various directions with the Ben 10 reboot but the real question is should they do these things and go down these very directions?

[Offbeatcat]

This franchise isn't the same franchise. Times are changing. To them, it's a clean slate. In this show, ben hasn't had an energy alien yet. And i think that shock rock's inclusion is forgivable, due to the interesting way they utilized it in the finale of the season. Why did i like it? Ben's reckless use of the watch had a consequence. Trying to mess with the watch caused him to lose upgrade, yes, but it seemed like shock rock was just a shoehorned in alien. While he is that, the sample is like a beacon, meaning whenever ben used that power, he was making a map to his planet. Something that, once Ben begins losing control of the alien, he is forced to confront. The omnitrix is a portal because he "upgraded" it into such a thing, without knowing what he was doing. In the end, the whole mess was his fault, and the situation did develop his character. While there was still some dumb stuff in that finale, it was a positive step. The writers seem to be getting a better idea of how to tell stories, and i'm proud of them. I kinda wish glitch had died off though, because we don't need 2 bens, and it could've been good for ben to see more consequences, but i'm happy with what we got.

[Tactical Ochoa]

@offbeatcat Isn't the same franchise? What in the world were you smoking when you typed that? It's called "Ben 10." It's in the freakin name. Yes, it's part of the same exact franchise. Yes, this is still the same franchise that we've been seeing since 2005. The Resident Evil live action films took a different direction than the games yet it's still part of the same franchise. The 2005 Doom film took a different approach yet it was still part of the same Doom franchise. Games such as Assassin's Creed Odyssey and Call of Duty Black Ops 4 take different directions compared to previous games yet they're still part of the same respective franchises. These are just some examples.

Also, it had always been established that Ben's reckless use of the Omnitrix...no, in fact, Ben's recklessness in general...led to negative consequences. It's been established since the Original Series. The difference with the reboot, however, is that Ben either barely or never learned from his mistakes. There's a constant, repeating trend in the reboot of Ben causing many of the very situations that he encounters to happen in the first place. Many many times Ben has put others in danger. Many many times Ben kept making situations even worse than they should be and yet he kept making those same mistakes. Ben's recklessness in the reboot has consequences but he doesn't actually learn from them.

And don't even dare give me that excuse that times are changing and that it's a clean slate because that doesn't matter for the overall quality of the show. It doesn't make the very flaws that the reboot has any less significant and relevant. It doesn't make the reboot show itself any better. It doesn't stop anyone from continuing to compare the reboot show to any of the past shows in the Ben 10 franchise. Times have changed for the Terminator franchise when Genisys rebooted said franchise and Genisys was seen as terrible and people still compared it to Terminator 1 and 2. Times have changed for Star Wars when Disney acquired it and yet The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi still copied many elements from the Original Trilogy and people are still comparing Disney's take on Star Wars to pre-Disney Star Wars. Times have changed for the Tomb Raider franchise when it was rebooted yet the reboot trilogy still lacked in many areas and many people still compared it to previous Tomb Raider games. Times have changed for the Powerpuff Girls series yet the PPG reboot was considered by pretty much almost everyone to be one of Cartoon Network's worse shows in its history and people also still compared the PPG reboot to the original PPG. Ever heard of the saying, "the more things change, the more they stay the same." Change does not always lead to good. Change can make things worse. That's why I value improvement over change. In fact, the Ben 10 reboot is, of course, a reboot. People want for reboots and remakes to be improvements over the original source materials. That's the intended purpose of the Ben 10 reboot being a reboot: to be an improvement over all of the previous shows, changes or not.

Oh, by the way, I just recently finished watching Innervasion. It is not a positive step for the show. Out of all the specials that the reboot had so far, Innervasion was the worse. So many blatant inconsistencies with the writing. Such a lack of tension. The writers are not getting a better idea of how to tell stories. In fact, the only times where they decided to try and be more competent and try to make something even remotely good were in those very specials. Every other episode of season 2 of the Ben 10 reboot is just more of the same stuff that we've been getting from season 1 and as such still have more of the same issues that season 1 episodes had with new issues to pile up on that. The writers are not improving here. They're not getting better.

You can say all you want that "times are changing" and "it's a clean slate" and something so stupid such as "this franchise isn't the same franchise" but that does not make the reboot show any better in it's quality. That does not make the issues with the reboot show any less significant and relevant. That is no excuse for the sheer incompetency that was displayed when making this very show.

[Offbeatcat]

@tactical-ochoa If you hate it so much, why are you watching it then? You're writing essays to tell everyone how much YOU hate this show, and we aren't allowed to have different views of it. The way i see it, this community only exists to talk about how bad the reboot is and how much you wish every episode was of the exact caliber of the original show. We get it. You hate this reboot with a burning passion. it will never be what you want it to be, and i think it's about time we all grow up and accept that it is not going to change. Man of action is allowed to make this show a kids show, and it doesn't have to be made so you will like it. kids watch it. They buy the toys. They'll keep doing this. We need to stop crying over spilled milk and accept that this is a kids show, not some story telling epic. They have changed perspective and style of stories, but you whine because it's not for you. This show is for a new generation, and while you might not like it, kids will. This is how it is going to be, and you cannot change that by pitching a fit.

[Offbeatcat]

And this is, in fact, a new franchise in the sense that the rules have changed, and they aren't bound by any of your "standards." Go back to writing fanfiction, since then you can indulge yourself with the content you want. I think i speak for a majority when i say that nobody wants to hear you being a baby about this.

[Tactical Ochoa]

@offbeatcat One of the major reasons I continue to watch it is because it provides material for my future articles. Because when I want to persuade people with my claims and arguments, I want to be as well-informed as possible. My last article covered ways that I think could help fix and improve Charmcaster as a character. I pretty much have to watch The Charm Offensive if I'm going to discuss about Charmcaster.

The community only exists to talk about how bad the reboot is? Quite the generalization there. No, the Ben 10 community exists because of the franchise itself. Because people want to support the franchise due to how much they like it. Granted, most of the Ben 10 community wouldn't be talking about how bad the reboot is if the reboot wasn't a bad show. And yeah, I do want for the reboot show to be on the same exact caliber of quality or even better than the Original Series. It's a reboot. Again, as I stated before, the intended purpose of a reboot is to be an improvement over the original source material. Man of Action is indeed allowed to make the reboot show how they want for it to be. Doesn't make it any better of a show. And really, kids watch it? I recall hearing plenty of instances of kids not liking the Ben 10 reboot and not buying the toys. Yes, it's for a new generation and apparently much of the new generation don't like it.

The rules have changed for many franchises and yet it still doesn't matter. Just look at the examples that I listed. And go back to writing fan fiction? Never wrote a fanfic in my life. You speak for a majority? My views on the Ben 10 reboot and the franchise as a whole have the highest amount of views on this website. I have the highest upvotes on this website. Many of the people that follow me on Twitter and Deviant-art do so because of my views on Ben 10. I've got good reception from the folks at the Ben 10 Reddit over my views. Most people that have read my views on the Ben 10 reboot and the franchise as a whole don't disagree with them. Out of all of the users on this website, the only people that I've seen take issue with my views are the same around 5 people that constantly complain about me, including you. I have seen no one else that complains about me on here. No other user. You're not in the majority. You're part of the minority.

[Offbeatcat]

@tactical-ochoa You have the most votes because you've been around the longest. You see what you want to see. And a lot of the people who take issue with you are the people who are most commonly online. People have left this server because of you. You were demoted from moderator because of this attitude. By being this way, you are excluding people. You say some kids don't like it, but a lot of kids I've met seem to love the reboot. My friends like the reboot as well. This reboot doesn't want to be the original, and it doesn't have to be. you have supporters, of course, but again, so do i. I have a lot of friends myself, and a lot of people agree on my optimistic look on the reboot. My video on the channel has more likes then dislikes. And people are afraid to argue with you because you always write these long and over the top paragraphs to force people to agree with you.
YOU'RE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. the community is being used mostly by you, and you mostly just talk shit about the reboot. A reboot can be multiple things. A reboot isn't just meant to be an improvement. It can also be a fresh start. As someone who knows the industry, a lot of people do buy the toys, so again, you might not know the new generation as well as you think. you say i'm a minority? Maybe, but you cannot control my opinions. I am entitled to say what i want without you trying to beat me down for speaking my mind.

[Tactical Ochoa]

@offbeatcat And yes, you are entitled to say whatever you want. You liking the reboot is not what I take issue with. What I take issue with is that you are using the excuse that the reboot is a fresh start to make the issues that it has seem less significant and relevant. That's what I'm taking issue with your arguments the most. If you want to be optimistic about the reboot, go on ahead. You have every right to do so but viewing it as a fresh start does not make it better. No, I'm not always right. That's been proven plenty of times before. And no, me being here the longest has nothing to do with people making their decisions to give me upvotes. I receive upvotes because people agree with me. Because people on here like the things that I say on here. And wow, 28 likes to 4 dislikes. Yeah, that really adds up against the hundreds of thousands of views, the almost 300 upvotes, the good reception I got on the Ben 10 Reddit, etc etc etc. that I've accumulated. "A lot of kids that you met" don't represent the overall general consensus of Ben 10 fans and viewers. Yes, some people have unfortunately left this website. Yes, there are still plenty of things that I need to improve on. Yet regardless, we're still receiving new members on this website and I've been having more and more discussions with more and more people within the Ben 10 fan base. Yeah, I'm really doing such a good job here excluding people, aren't I?

You're telling me to judge the show on its own merits. I did. You're constantly reminding me that the reboot show is a fresh start. I've known that since it was first announced. No matter how many times you say that, it doesn't make the issues that the show has any less significant and relevant. It doesn't make the show better. Yet you keep saying that as if it does make the show better. I can agree that I get too biased towards the Original Series at times but you're certainly biased towards the reboot as well.