The Ben 10 Series
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I am making this topic page to open up discussions about the Ben 10 Series in general. If anyone wants to join in, feel free to do so.
Anyways, I'm in the middle of a discussion with "chronosapien234." Here is what we discussed in chat so that anyone following this topic page will be able to understand what we've been talking about. Earlier, we've been discussing information about a new alien for the reboot that I will make a post on my other topic page about soon. We we're also discussing he character of Zombozo. "chronosapien234" was discussing how Zombozo was more of a zombie while I stated that he's more of a vampire due to him feeding off of people's positive energy and souls in the Ben 10 Original Series.
Tactical Ochoa
True. Ben having a cold gave Heatblast ice abilities. As for an alien that can have that ability permanently, we already got that and it was Arctiguana. While Arctiguana wasn't an alien that Ben got when he was 10, he would eventually get that alien as shown with Ben 10,000 and in Omniverse. Also, I don't mind if you're not going to show me the artwork. That's up to you as to what you find acceptable to share to people. That's your decision. If you do want to share more info with me, that's up to you but you don't have to. Also, Ben does' need the Ultimatrix to gain access to Water hazard. Honestly, in my opinion, Ben should have never even got the Ultimatrix and I bet that Man of Action didn't intend for Ben to get the Ultimatrix. Finally, it doesn't really matter that much if this new alien doesn't look like Ripjaws. Fans and viewers are going to, again, see the bullshit out of this. If this alien can control water, people are going to claim that it's a re-skin of Water Hazard. If this alien is a fish-like alien, people are going to claim that it would be a re-skin of Ripjaws. If the alien has ice abilities, people are going to claim that it's a re-skin of Arctiguana. That's the thing. We've seen Ben having plenty of new aliens yet most of those new aliens are just re-skins of Ben's older aliens or just very similar to Ben's older aliens, which causes negative criticisms if overused. Eatle is a re-skin of Upchuck and Fasttrack is an obvious and terrible re-skin of XLR8 and they look nothing like Upchuck and XLR8 yet knowing what abilities they have makes them pointless to use and even create because Ben already has Upchuck and XLR8. That's the problem here. That's what I mean by re-skin. This new alien doesn't have to look like Ripjaws. If it behaves similarly to Ripjaws, then people will see it as a re-skin of Ripjaws. That's not bringing in something new. That's CN being lazy and cheap. Again, I'll think more about this and maybe make a post discussing it. I'll be more than happy to give you credit for this info as well. It's just that, the Ben 10 audience is more likely not going to be favorable about this new alien and will already call out CN's BS on it. I'll see what I'll put on my post.chronosapien234
OK. First off: fasttrack is actually faster and physically stronger than XLR8, and Upchuck is physically weak and has to devour the entire thing he wants to use for ammo. Eatle is much stronger and can take bites out of everything he eats. The new alien is actually much more powerful than water hazard.also, if ben had not gotten the ultimatrix, he would not have any way to transform or defeat vilgax after the upgraded omnitrix self-destructed.
I forgot to mention that eatle can deliver a larger number of more powerful attacks with less ammo
Tactical Ochoa
Ok. True. Fasttrack is stronger than XLR8 but faster? Not at all actually. Either XLR8 is faster or XLR8 and Fasttrack have the same speed. However, XLR8 is much easier to control and faster attacking speed with his razor-sharp claws being able to cut through almost any material. Fasttrack will have trouble stopping if he runs too fast. Because of XLR8 having wheels as feet, he can accelerate at high speeds at a very fast rate. Probably faster than Fasttrack, who just has regular feet. This also allows XLR8 to control his speed better. XLR8 also relies on friction with his wheels to gain speed, even being able to spring on water. Fasttrack can't build up speed through friction because he has regular feet. He has to spend energy to create speed. XLR8's wheeled feet also allows him to dodge and change directions more efficiently and easily. We haven't even seen Fasttrack utilize his strength for attacking that much. The most we've seen of Fasttrack's super strength is that he can carry more on his back. Stronger, yes. Faster, no. Again, Fasttrack is either slower than XLR8 or just as fast as XLR8. Either way, XLR8 is the better alien for speed and Fasttrack doesn't even look like an alien. He looks exactly like a superhero costume.Eatle is stronger than Upchuck? Eatle is stronger than the one species that is actually on top of the food chain and has no predators? Eatle, who is slower than Upchuck and had a major blind spot in Ultimate Alien is better than Upchuck? Eatle, who can only consume certain types of materials, is better than Upchuck, who can consume anything he wants? Yeah, no. Eatle is worse than Upchuck.
chronosapien234
well you have to give him points for that at least. and he is stronger because he does not loose speed when he carries something heavy, this is shown in the episode where ben has to go to the plumber acadamyTactical Ochoa
This is about the Omnitrix. I'll respond to your other message in a sec. What I mean about the Ultimatrix is that I believe that Man of Action didn't even want Ben to have the Omnitrix. Remember, CN made the sequels; not MOA. CN created so many retcons that it threw off the Ben 10 series very badly. Ben 10,000 had the same Omnitrix as Ben did in the Original Series. Knowing Man ofAction, Ben was supposed to keep the original Omnitrix. Also, the new Omnitrix did not get an upgrade. It recalibrated and, for some reason that is never explained, just magically changed it's physical appearance. I understand the scenario that you noted but like I said in my previous posts, we weren't supposed to get Alien Force. That in actuality, we were supposed to get Ben 10 Hero Generation. That is what I'm trying to do here. To convince CN to let Man of Action make Hero Generation, the true sequel to the Original Series.Again, Fasttrack is stronger but that's not going to help much against XLR8. XLR8 just has much better benefits and advantages in speed than Fasttrack. Again, it's good that Fasttrack is stronger than XLR8 but XLR8 is just the better alien. Fans don't even like Fasttrack for the same reasons. That's why Fasttrack never made an appearance in Omniverse. Because even CN came to understand that XLR8 is the better alien.
chronosapien234
and when I said he was stronger, I meant he is better for situations where physical strength is needed. upchuck is only able to lift 2-5 pounds at most, while eatle is much stronger being a semi-mechanical life form. and that timeline was an alternate one. there have been 4 future bens, the original, enoch, ultimate ben , and biomatrix ben.there are alternate timelines, remember "and then there were none""and then there was ben"?
also in the episode "Ken 10" Ken got the original omnitrix
this proves that Ben 10000 didn't keep the original omnitrix
Tactical Ochoa
True. However, Upchuck still has better and greater benefits and advantages over Eatle. Upchuck is just the better alien. It's unnecessary to even bring in Eatle because of Upchuck.Tactical Ochoa
I do like the alternate timelines concept but, again, these weren't supposed to be the sequels that we were supposed to get. We weren't supposed to have Ultimate Ben (who freakin sucks) and Biomatrix Ben (who is just CN's poor attempt to bring back the original Ben 10,000). As I explained those two episodes in my previous posts, they were supposed to be really epic episodes only to turn out to be terrible episodes because the way that the Chronosapien Time Bomb was implemented completely ruined those two episodes. It doesn't make sense why the Time Bomb worked the way it did.Ken didn't get the original Omnitrix. Ben 10,000 created another Omnitrix for Ken using his smartest aliens. Ben 10,000 still had the original Omnitrix.
chronosapien234
If that is what you believe, you really need to watch that episode againalso:ULTIMATE BEN IS @#$%#@ AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And as for the biomatrix Ben 10,000, Atomic X was the most powerful alien hybrid species in freak'n existance
Tactical Ochoa
I'm going to create a discussion page in a little while so that we can discuss Ben 10 more easily. I'll get back to you in an hour.chronosapien234
Chronosapiens are masters of time. the fact that they are able to move between timelines and create devices to destroy timelines is actually reasonable. if a timeline became too dangerous to other timelines, they would need to have some way to get rid of that bad timeline -
Ken getting a different Omnitrix made by Ben 10,000 while Ben 10,000 keeping the original Omnitrix isn't something that I believe. It's a fact. Even the Ben 10 Wiki points this out.
Here's the thing about Ultimate Ben. His ability is being able to quickly switch between each and every one of his alien abilities through the Ultimatrix's evolution function. However, the original Omnitrix also has this capability in the form of the Master Control, which Ben used even in the Original Series. Ultimate Ben was only using a more downgraded Master Control as he still needed to interact with the Ultimatrix where Ben could just transform between each of his aliens through will and in very quick succession. Ultimate Ben doesn't even change alien forms. He's just also really generic. Heck, even Derrick J. Wyatt himself thought that Ultimate Ben was a lame idea, which is another reason why CN tried to bring back Ben 10,000. Because Ben 10,000 is a much better and cooler character.
I don't know why you pointed out Atomic X but that's the problem with Ben's aliens lately. Ben is getting aliens that are just making him way too powerful and making his battles less challenging and tense.
I discussed this about the Chronosapien Time Bomb. The functions of the time bomb and Vilgax's use of it doesn't make sense. I explained why in my other topic page. Here's a quote on it. This came from my "Addressing the Ben 10 Reboot" topic page.
"In the episode, “And Then There Were None,” Vilgax uses a Chronosapien Time Bomb to wipe out every version of Ben in the multiverse except for No Watch Ben. Okay so why did Gwen 10 and Albedo get erased by the time bomb? Vilgax specifically targeted Ben and his alternate versions and last time I checked, Gwen 10 is not Ben and Albedo is just a Galvan stuck in the form of Ben. Does the time bomb destroy timelines? If so, then why is Vilgax still around if he just destroyed the Main Timeline, which is where he is from? If Ben Prime and his timeline got erased, then why is his Omnitrix still around with No Watch Ben? Shouldn’t the Omnitrix be erased as well since that it came from the Main Timeline, which the time bomb just wiped out? There’s another major problem with Omniverse. It ends up raising more questions than answers."
It doesn't make sense.
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Some things are meant to be unexplained, i guess.
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Vy are ve shtill talking about zis? Zis iz rediculous. Ze point about viping out every zingle ben 10, vas to destroy evary Omnitrix veilder. So, Sinze Qwen got zat omnitrix, she iz from an alturnate timeline. Zus, she would be eraized from exixtance.
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@chronosapien234 Whoa. What's with the spelling? Anyways, I know what the purpose was but the way it was done doesn't make sense. It's a major plot hole. A question that can't be answered. This is the type of stuff that people hate in shows, movies, video games, etc. Stuff like this is cluttered all over the Ben 10 sequels. So much that doesn't make sense. So much that is never explained. So many questions that remained unanswered. So much that was done wrong. All of this was the result of Cartoon Network implementing poor and lazy writing, structuring, and designing of the sequels. Stuff such as how the Chronosapien Time Bomb was used are done so terrible and in a way that doesn't even make any sense at all is why the Ben 10 sequels are just overall really terrible shows.
Things have to make sense. They have to be explained in a way that it does make sense, is very much understandable, and works for the Ben 10 series. No matter how fictional and ridiculous it is, it has to make sense. It has to work. It has to be see in a way that viewers would understand how and why it happened the way it happened. You have to fulfill the who, what, when, where, why, and how. Why do you think so many people hate Omniverse so much? Because it's examples like the time bomb that shows how stupid and terrible that show is and how lazy and stupid Cartoon Network is and Cartoon Network is being stupid and lazy with the reboot as well.
It has to make sense and has to be explained. Simple as that.
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I was trying to sound like clockwork. and the show is about a kid who finds a watch in space that turns him into aliens. Explain that
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@chronosapien234 Ok. Clockwork. Now I see.
Well, for Ben getting the Omnitrix, lets take a look at who, what, when, where, why, how.
Who: Who finds the Omnitrix? Ben Tennyson.
What: What is the Omnitrix? An alien watch that contains the DNA samples of over a million different alien species with the capability to transform the wielder into any alien that the wielder chooses. Created by Azmuth to help promote peace in the Universe through allowing better communication with the various different alien species.
When: When does Ben find the Omnitrix? On the first night of his Summer Vacation Road Trip.
Where: Where does Ben find the Omnitrix? At Yosemite Park in California, where the pod containing the Omnitrix lands at.
Why: Why does Ben find and have the Omnitrix? The Omnitrix was meant to be sent to Ben's grandfather, Max, to protect it. Ben happens to come across it and the Omnitrix latches onto his arm because Ben's DNA is a close match to Max's DNA. Because the Omnitrix latched itself onto his arm, Ben can't take it off. However, he decides to keep it and to use the Omnitrix to be a hero.
How: How did Ben find and end up with the Omnitrix? Xylene was transporting it when Vilgax attacks her ship. Xylene is forced to launch the Omnitrix away in a pod and sent it to Max for, again, protection. The Omnitrix tracks Max and ends up landing near Ben. Ben approaches the pod, finds the Omnitrix, and it latches itself onto his arm as explained in the why.
As for the rest of the Original Series, Ben learns what it takes to be a true hero while also trying to figure out the origins and true purpose of the Omnitrix.
There we go. everything is explained in a way that makes sense, is understandable, and works for the series.
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Still... I think that it would be really weird if you explained it to some random person who had never herd of it.
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@chronosapien234 That's Ben 10 for you. It's supposed to be weird. To be bizarre. That is the style that Man of Action is best at. Creating realistic and bizarre worlds. That's a major reason why the Original Series is considered the best show in the Ben 10 series and still is and that's where the sequels failed the most at. It did something that not many cartoon shows have attempted and succeeded in. Being a weird show that it is is what made it so unique and original. That's what people like and want to see. A cartoon show that does something unique.
So yeah, of course it's going to sound weird to those who haven't watch Ben 10 but it's also going to get people interested in watching it. Shows like Ben 10 are stuff that most people want to see. Something that is unique and original, even though it's inspired and based off of Dial H for Hero. It'll sound weird to people that haven't watched Ben 10 but it gets them interested in watching it because it's unique and does something new.
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I thought the thing that made omniverse special is the fact that we see ben when he was 5 1/2, 11, 16, AND 30
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@chronosapien234 Special? Omniverse was a generic and typical comedic cartoon show. It didn't do much that was new. CN once again made so many changes to Ben 10 that Omniverse is seen as the most hated and even the worse in the Ben 10 series. The sequels are a prime example of why Cartoon Network shouldn't be involved in making this reboot. Cartoon Network is being lazy and stupid here. They aren't listening to their audience, thinking that Cartoon Network is right and the CN audience is wrong. That's why on my other topic page I've been saying that Cartoon Network needs to back off and let Man of Action make the Ben 10 show that they want to make. I bet you anything that Man of Action doesn't even want to make this reboot. It's better to just let Man of Action make a Ben 10 show their way and to not reboot the Original Series but to instead reboot the sequels.
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@chronosapien234 So,you're asking me what my favorite alien is. Hmm? I'm not entirely sure. I don't even know if I do have a favorite alien. I know that my favorite set of aliens are the Original Series ones. They still look unique, awesome, and truly alien to this day. I really like Rath, though. John DiMaggio did a great job with him and Rath is just really freakin funny to watch. While a lot of the aliens in the sequels were really generic, they do have some really cool abilities. The only Ultimate Form that I liked in Ultimate Alien was Ultimate Echo Echo. Feedback is pretty cool. Other than that, I don't really have a favorite alien. Again, my most favorite set of aliens were the Original Series ones.
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I liked the part in omniverse when rath FINALLY GOT SOME PANTS!!!
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@chronosapien234 Eh, that was ok. I really didn't like the luchadore (I don't know if I spelled that right) outfit but it does fit Rath's wrestling fighting style.
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Plus he had a heatbast mace
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@chronosapien234 You know what, I forgot to follow up on Zombozo. Here's the thing about Zombozo. I believe that he wasn't supposed to be like how he was in Omniverse. He's not supposed to be some zombie clown that feeds off of fear just to sustain himself and have some strange craving for brains. This was another change that Cartoon Network did that only created more problems than improvements. In the Original Series, Zombozo was feeding off of people's positive energy and souls because he desired to do so. He desired the power and energy that it gave him. He desired it so much that I can even say that it's pretty much or kinda an addiction. He craves for all that positive energy. He gets a rush from it. It makes him feel powerful. It actually makes him powerful. That's what made Zombozo such a great villain in the Original Series and why he lacks that greatness in the sequels. Zombozo is a creepy, scary, and sadistic clown that feeds off of people's positive energy and souls because he craves and desires the feeling and power that it gave him. Not because he wants to sustain himself and avoid becoming weak. It's because he wants power and he wants the rush of all that positive energy that he collects from people. That is what made Zombozo a great, and very much indeed creepy and scary, villain in the Original Series, even though it was just one episode. That is why he lacked quite much in the sequels. He was great in the Original Series because Man of Action designed him. He grew to becoming terrible in the sequels because Cartoon Network changed him almost completely.
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@Tactical-Ochoa you do make a good point. Although, you do realize that the circus freaks were important parts of zombozo's plans, and omniverse brought them back when ultimate alien ignored them completely. so they actually used the same episode plot in a different perspective.
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@chronosapien234 Yes, true. The Circus Freaks were important with his plan. However, that's just because they're villainous henchmen characters. Even without Zombozo, the Circus Freaks still end up temporarily as the henchmen to another villain. You know, Ghostfreak. Pretty much almost every time we've seen the Circus Freaks, they are serving somebody. Mostly Zombozo. They're just villainous henchmen characters. They helped but they're not really all that important. In fact, I believe that there pretty much wouldn't be a difference at all if they aren't around. Why? Because, again, they're henchmen. They're also basic thugs, too. The Circus Freaks are not that important.
Also, this is about Zombozo as a character and villain. What makes Zombozo who he is. Why he is like that. How he executes his plans. What makes Zombozo as Zombozo and he doesn't need the Circus Freaks for that.
That is another out of the many problems with Omniverse and even the other sequels. The Original Series was able to do things that not many cartoon shows ever did. The Original Series did something new. The sequels were generic and typical cartoon shows. They barely did anything new if nothing new at all. That episode in Omniverse with Zombozo turning everyone in Bellwood into zombie clowns. If it was a nod to the Original Series, it failed at trying to delivery and do something unique and impressive. No instead, it ended up being another terrible episode due to Ben regaining his fear of clowns and one major plot hole that really ruined that episode, let alone the sheer cartoonish stupidity of it. Does nobody remember that Zombozo and the Circus Freaks are villains? Does nobody remember what they've done in the past? Oh, Ben regained his fear of clowns, huh? Thanks for making Ben conquering his fears in the Original Series pointless now, Cartoon Network.
As for the plot hole, ask yourself this question? Those toy teeth that turn people into zombie clowns. Yeah, how is it that those teeth can bite through Plumber armor and hazmat suits let alone BASIC CLOTHING? They're plastic toy teeth. Is Plumber armor really that terrible and not that protective? I thought Stormtrooper armor was bad enough. Plumber armor is even worse. That one plot hole alone makes that entire episode freakin stupid and terrible. It shows how poor and lazy the writing, structuring, and designing of the sequels are. I know it's a cartoon show but again, it needs to make sense and needs to be understandable enough to work.
