Ben 10 Reboot Discussion Part 1: Season 2
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@tactical-ochoa You have the most votes because you've been around the longest. You see what you want to see. And a lot of the people who take issue with you are the people who are most commonly online. People have left this server because of you. You were demoted from moderator because of this attitude. By being this way, you are excluding people. You say some kids don't like it, but a lot of kids I've met seem to love the reboot. My friends like the reboot as well. This reboot doesn't want to be the original, and it doesn't have to be. you have supporters, of course, but again, so do i. I have a lot of friends myself, and a lot of people agree on my optimistic look on the reboot. My video on the channel has more likes then dislikes. And people are afraid to argue with you because you always write these long and over the top paragraphs to force people to agree with you.
YOU'RE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. the community is being used mostly by you, and you mostly just talk shit about the reboot. A reboot can be multiple things. A reboot isn't just meant to be an improvement. It can also be a fresh start. As someone who knows the industry, a lot of people do buy the toys, so again, you might not know the new generation as well as you think. you say i'm a minority? Maybe, but you cannot control my opinions. I am entitled to say what i want without you trying to beat me down for speaking my mind.Nobody gets to choose how it happens.
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@offbeatcat And yes, you are entitled to say whatever you want. You liking the reboot is not what I take issue with. What I take issue with is that you are using the excuse that the reboot is a fresh start to make the issues that it has seem less significant and relevant. That's what I'm taking issue with your arguments the most. If you want to be optimistic about the reboot, go on ahead. You have every right to do so but viewing it as a fresh start does not make it better. No, I'm not always right. That's been proven plenty of times before. And no, me being here the longest has nothing to do with people making their decisions to give me upvotes. I receive upvotes because people agree with me. Because people on here like the things that I say on here. And wow, 28 likes to 4 dislikes. Yeah, that really adds up against the hundreds of thousands of views, the almost 300 upvotes, the good reception I got on the Ben 10 Reddit, etc etc etc. that I've accumulated. "A lot of kids that you met" don't represent the overall general consensus of Ben 10 fans and viewers. Yes, some people have unfortunately left this website. Yes, there are still plenty of things that I need to improve on. Yet regardless, we're still receiving new members on this website and I've been having more and more discussions with more and more people within the Ben 10 fan base. Yeah, I'm really doing such a good job here excluding people, aren't I?
You're telling me to judge the show on its own merits. I did. You're constantly reminding me that the reboot show is a fresh start. I've known that since it was first announced. No matter how many times you say that, it doesn't make the issues that the show has any less significant and relevant. It doesn't make the show better. Yet you keep saying that as if it does make the show better. I can agree that I get too biased towards the Original Series at times but you're certainly biased towards the reboot as well.
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@tactical-ochoa i'm trying to give it a chance. I DON'T EVEN LIKE IT MUCH. Yeah, i hate the reboot with a burning passion. But i just feel like there isn't anyone here trying to be positive or trying to stand up for it. If nobody else wants to, somebody in this broad community has to. I don't want this place to become a place where we continuously shit on the reboot. i think that, on it's own merits, it is indeed generic, and it is indeed subpar, but it's taking steps. Management has changed, and this new show is having to stand on its own feet, and needs to learn. But i think there needs to be a balance. If you're always staying bad stuff about it, i want to be able to keep the show at least in a neutral light. I may not like it much but...I respect the creators of the original, and the company that created ben 10 is allowed to make their own choices, as strange or questionable as they are. I feel that you're so...visible that your opinions sort of loom over others. I think you should at least...try sounding nicer. i want this to be a friendly and welcoming place for all fans, and i think that...maybe not try to tear apart arguments every time one is made? You just...need to let people speak without trying to share your thoughts on it all the time.
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In fact, i WANT to be really vicious and negative to it. THIS SHOW IS A MOCKERY OF MY CHILDHOOD MOST OF THE TIME. IT RARELY SHOWS QUALITY CONTROL AND I JUST SO BADLY WANT IT TO IMPROVE. I WANT IT TO DO BETTER AND I WANT MAN OF ACTION TO GIVE A SHIT! I WANT THEM TO REALLY TRY! I HAVE A LOT OF HATRED. But...talking about how much i hate it and how little i like about it won't fix anything or change anything. It's better to look at the few glimmers of hope we have.
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essentially, i just want to give this show the benefit of the doubt, and keep an open mind, and see the show for what it is.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coo_v3qrynU&
I think that i should make another video of this sort. Now that season 2 is done, and i've had more experience with writing, I'd like to try to make "Reboot talk" a series. Any ideas for topics i could discuss? -
@offbeatcat Then you are mistaking criticism with blind hatred here. If you so badly want for the reboot to improve or for the franchise as a whole to improve, do what I do. Criticize it. Point out the issues that the reboot and the franchise has and then point out ways that you think could help fix these issues and improve the overall quality of the show and the franchise. That's what I always do. My articles that I post onto here and onto Deviant-art are legitimate examples of that. The last article that I made was about how to fix and improve Charmcaster. After I make my part 2 review of season 2 of the reboot, I plan to make another article about how to fix and improve the Ben 10 franchise as a whole. Sitting there trying to be positive and optimistic, hoping that it gets better, and ignoring the issues will get nothing done. Criticism is such an important tool to use in order to make improvements; in order for things to get better. If you want for Ben 10 to improve and get better, you have to criticize the issues that it has and then demand for improvement.
As for my long comments, why do you think I make my comments long? I always follow the standards of making a persuasive argument, which hopefully you're learning about if you're currently taking a writing class in high school. I so often plan things out before I address my claims and views and then follow them up with logical reasoning and using evidence and examples. That's how you're supposed to be able to persuade people to support your arguments and agree with your views. That's how you cover as many angles and corners as possible. It's one of the best methods to get people to side with you, if not the best. That's why my comments are often long and it's also why I often rip apart the arguments that you and the other folks that despise me make. You don't do that sort of stuff. You either don't provide proper evidence or when you try to, it's terrible evidence. You guys just react and don't think and plan out first. You don't structure your arguments well. In fact, the others that you say are afraid to argue with me? They're not afraid to argue with me because I force my views down their throats. That's not what I usually do and I often try not doing that. They're afraid to argue with me because they don't seem to argue their points well enough and therefore it makes it more easy for me to dismantle their arguments. Take this as advice. You want to address your views in the best possible way? Look into what a persuasive argument is and follow the standards of making a persuasive argument. Remember what I said about criticism? I criticized your methods of arguing with me and then provided a means in which you can improve your arguments; especially if you're really going to follow up on that "Reboot talk" series.
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@tactical-ochoa I fear becoming a smart-ass. You may be right in most regards, but at the same time, there are a few things you aren't factoring in. When you make really long arguments, some people are turned off to them, and as I've seen with many people, they don't want to read all that much text. Therefore, i condense things so i don't drag it all out too much, and get to the point. But i do know how to be a pessimist. If you want, i can just tear everything apart. like how the original series reuses the exact same transformation sequences over and over. How UA's ultimatrix was an underutilized gimmick. The fact that alien force's highbreed was bland and not super interesting. I could talk about how omniverse's first seasons are garbage because of their attempt at nonstop "humor". All in all, there are things i could say, but hanging around friends has taught me that sometimes, you need to factor in the fun factor. I am not a blind optimist. I'm only vocally positive here because nobody else is. But i could write long essays about the flaws of the reboot and how i would change them. I know how to do so, and i am more then familiar with the formalities of making a convincing argument. The thing is, i want this community to be welcoming to all people, even the ones who like the reboot. And with your general attitude, it scares away a larger audience due to how nobody can really make arguments or statements without you cutting in. If this were a private and exclusive group, i wouldn't have any issues with it. However, we shouldn't scare off the kids who like the reboot, or people with preferences that are unorthodox.
On another note, i am understanding of your desire and need for critique. I really do. I didn't have many friends because i did that all the time. Nobody wanted to talk to me because i wouldn't stop pestering people and breaking down everything they said. I think being friendly would offer long term benefits, and help appeal to a larger audience then the "hardcore Ben 10 fans". And my reasoning for not commonly critiquing the show? MOA doesn't give a shit. As much as i hate it, nothing we do changes anything. We aren't powerful or influential. We're just a bunch of people. There's no real point in wasting my breath or typing out essays if nobody but a few people actually listen. Not many people actually comment here, because outside of critique of the reboot, not a lot happens here. I hope that was enough to make a point, but if you want me to type more sentences and make more arguments about my opinions, i can do so. I'm just trying not to alienate other people.Nobody gets to choose how it happens.
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@offbeatcat And that's another issue that I have with you and some other folks. You give up too easily. Nothing we do changes anything? Have you not seen the backlash that came from fans and gamers that came with EA's Star Wars Battlefront 2 and lootboxes. It was because of that backlash that countries are going through the effort of including lootboxes into gambling regulation laws. It was because of fan feedback and criticisms that Resident Evil games went back to survival horror and the Resident Evil 2 Remake was put into development. It was because of fans boycotting from the poor quality of The Last Jedi and how Lucasfilms and the media have been negatively treating fan criticism of that film that the Star Wars: Solo film flopped in the box office. Battlefield 5's ridiculous customization and political correctness as well as the way that DICE developers and EA executives were treating those that criticized the game for these elements that led to Battlefield 5 losing 85% of their pre-orders, thus causing EA and DICE to backpedal on that game in an attempt to salvage it. If Cartoon Network and Man of Action doesn't care about what we think, they're eventually going to find out the hard way that they do need to care. Cartoon Network is still going on a decline. More and more people are getting fed up with how Cartoon Network is handling things and thus are leaving CN to look for other, better sources of animated entertainment. Just look at the Powerpuff Girls reboot. It's pretty much dead because pretty much everyone disliked that show and therefore decided not to watch it and buy its merchandise. If you want for Cartoon Network and Man of Action to care about what we have to say, you need to keep persisting with your criticisms and demands for improvement.
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The problem I also see with the current reboot is the 11 minute episode structure. It works good if you are working on a comedy cartoon show but not always good with a plot driven show. If you try to make a plot oriented show you have to makes cuts to make it fit into 11 minutes or some cases make some rush jobs.
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@ultraalien And for some reason they even decided to structure the specials into 11 minute parts instead of just airing the entire specials in one full segment, which hurts the specials a little because even they ended up having pacing issues because of how they're split up into 11 minute parts.
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@tactical-ochoa I have been persisting for....hmm....i dunno, since omniverse! I've sent email after email, written essay after essay, and nothing happens. Nothing changes. I am sick and tired of wasting my time complaining. Seeing as we're stuck with this reboot, i'd at least like to look at the positives. There may not be many, but at the very least the show has some promise. Although season 2 was a disappointment, and the show could really use an overhaul. Ultimately, it now falls on MOA to listen, rather then us to restate the obvious.
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Buckle up y'all, we're going to Europe!
https://www.regularcapital.com/2018/10/brand-licensing-europe-2018-cartoon-networks-future-plans-for-ben-10-in-2019/ -
As the reboot is headed down a slippery slope, i'd like to ask you all this question: How can MOA course correct this and put it back on track? Within the context of the show, i mean.
Nobody gets to choose how it happens.
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@offbeatcat How can they improve the reboot show?
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@tactical-ochoa exactly. i'm posing the question to everyone
Nobody gets to choose how it happens.
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@offbeatcat Christ, where to even begin with this show.
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Ok so in regards to how Man of Action can improve the Ben 10 reboot through season 3, there's a lot of things that would have to be done. First off would have to be the story. Season 3 CAN NOT be just another season where we get villain-of-the-week filler episodes followed by an around one hour long season finale split into 11 minute parts that have the closest to resembling an actual overarching story that we've been getting with the first two seasons. There needs to be an overarching story that spans throughout the entire season. Episode 1 of season 3 needs to introduce a major story plot and at least most of the entire season needs to stick to that plot. However, the problem with that is that season 3 is most likely going to be another 40 episodes that are each 11 minutes long. With so many episodes, there's a chance that the major story plot could likely end up dragging out and the 11 minute episode run time would likely create issues with the pacing...which we already saw with the first two seasons already. Therefore, I say that it would be better for season 3 to be somewhere between 10 and 20 episodes that each span a length of 30 to 60 minutes.
Then there are the characters. Ben needs to grow as a character. His tendency often to cause situations to happen in the first place and to often make situations worse than they should be needs to go. Ben needs to have more maturity and responsibility in him. He can still be cocky and fun-loving but they need to tone that down and introduce more maturity and responsibility into him to balance that out. This leads up to Gwen. Gwen needs to put her foot down more and be more stern and serious whenever Ben is causing more shenanigans. That was one of the aspects about Gwen than made her at her best. She kept Ben in check. She kept Ben focused on the task at hand. Gwen being the voice of reason and being hard on Ben whenever he did something stupid helped Ben become a better character and hero. Her lacking that in the reboot is one of the major aspects about her that greatly undermines Gwen as a character.
Tone down the comedic elements as well; especially in the action scenes. It's fine to have some comedic elements but there's too much of it in the Ben 10 reboot and it undermines the action scenes because it makes the action scenes feel devoid of tension and a sense of danger. They're action scenes. We should be getting the feeling that people's lives are at stake. We should be concerned for the well-being of the main characters. That can't happen if the action scenes often feel like a comedy act.
Whatever unnecessary, toy-selling gimmick they're going to throw out next also needs to go. That is not a good way to add quality content to Ben 10. A gimmick is a freakin gimmick. Shock Rock was an example of that. He was an unnecessary alien to add to Ben's roster when there are already plenty of other, better, more unique and interesting electric and energy based aliens that have already been introduced in past shows that CN Studios and Man of Action could've easily brought back and would've worked out a lot better. The Omni-Enhancements were also just as much unnecessary to have around as the Ultimate Forms from Ultimate Alien. The real reason that Shock Rock and the Omni-Enhancements exists were to sell more toys. If what they plan to bring into season 3 is really only there just to advertise and sell more toys, it needs to go. If Man of Action wants to introduce better quality content to season 3 of the Ben 10 reboot, they could easily do this by providing a good story with well-written characters, tense and well-directed action scenes, interesting lore and world building, interesting and unique and useful aliens, etc etc etc. That's why the Original Series made billions in merchandise during its run and is still considered by many, if not most, fans to be the best show in the franchise.
There's still many more aspects and elements of the Ben 10 reboot that need to be fixed and improved as well but this comment is already going to be long enough as it is and there's a lot that I want to save for when I plan to make my next article. Regardless though, I doubt that Man of Action and CN Studios are going to be able to do much to change and improve season 3 now. After season 2 finished production, production for season 3 started and that was a while back. My guess is that season 3 is almost done in production and going through with such a drastic revision is something that Cartoon Network isn't really going to favor much as it would put season 3 on such a significant delay and everything done up to now would be seen as a waste of time and resources, which to the CN executives means a waste of money. Considering that season 2 very much had the same issues as season 1 had, more issues with the writing were created, and very little improvements to the show were made, I don't see season 3 going to be any better than season 1 and 2. Most likely were just going to get more of the same stuff with season 3 and therefore more of the same issues.
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@tactical-ochoa I don't think you can do sophisticated writing with a show based on 11 minutes since the current Ben 10 Reboot is based around primarily on comedy.
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@ultraalien That's why I said that episodes need to be between 30 and 60 minutes long each. You can make good stories with 11 minutes but they would have to be more simple and not a lot has to go on because there's such a short amount of time. The more complex the story is and/or the more that's going on in the episode, the longer the episode needs to be.
