Returning to the Original Continuity
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With regards to powers, I think that a team of Ben, Gwen, Hope, Alan and Cooper (and later Helen, Manny and Pierce) all a diverse range of abilities (which aren't too overpowered) which would be good for a range of storytelling.
Ben obviously has the Omnitrix. I think that recalibrating and shuffling his playlist does work, but I'd still keep the basic functionality of the device the same as it was in the original series. (so no voice commands, or deus ex machina abilities like reviving Ben as Diamondhead). I think that it would be a good idea to include some of Ben's less used original aliens (eg. the monster trio) to give them some more love as well as introducing newer and unique ones. I think that a good roster would be:
- Benwolf
- Snare-Oh
- Frankenstrike
- Big Chill
- Spidermonkey (though I'd give him a redesign)
- Ripjaws/Jetray**
- Goop
- Humoungasaur (would also get a slight redesign, differentiate his powerset a bit and not make him overused)
- Ditto
- Lodestar (except I wouldn't make him too powerful like he was in UAF)
(**in the case of Jetray, ONLY if he's severely nerfed by removing his ability to fly, break the lightspeed barrier while doing so, and his ability to survive in space. He'd primarily be a water based alien who is faster underwater than Ripjaws but not as strong, even though he can shock his enemies. He would be able to glide in the air though, just not fly at hyperspeed.)
I think that would be quite a balanced roster for Ben and the idea would be that he would have to adapt to using aliens beyond the original 10 which would probably be his favourites, and could lead to some humorous scenarios if done right.
With Gwen, I'd make her a fully human sorceress again. I personally didn't like the Anodite retcon at all - why not just explain Gwen's proficiency as her being a prodigy at pretty much everything that she does? Not like that isn't true, and it keeps the universe broad and exciting. She'd still be using actual spells rather than being totally limited to Green Lantern constructs.
Charmcaster would be similar to Gwen except she's more proficient due to having more experience, and understands how the mystic arts work more than anyone else on the team. To differentiate her from Gwen though I'd have her fighting style be distinct: maybe Charmcaster could utilise more magical artifacts and tricks in contrast to Gwen who takes more of a bare hands approach. I'm thinking that maybe some more lore could be added to how magic works in general...but that's still work in progress.
Given that Ben won't have Heatblast initially Alan's Pyronite powers are therefore unique to the team. Perhaps he will struggle initially with how he shifts from human to Pyronite but over time learns how to control it and make it less spontaneous.
Cooper also has a unique set of powers with his technopathy which allows him to control technology and use that to his advantage. Obviously he would get drawbacks from using his mutant powers too much but he is still distinct from the others and I think that there could be some really cool storylines involving his powers.
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There has been a few instances where I've been responding to a few posts by people without actually reading it carefully. Which was wrong of me to do so as I don't know what I'm talking about or agreeing to. Yeah it's a huge wall of text but I'll read everything from now onwards no matter how huge the paragraphs are.
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@coreofthesun Charmcaster really should've been the one to go through a redemption arc instead of Kevin. With the way that she was set up in the Original Series, it felt much more fitting for her to be in Kevin's position in Alien Force.
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@Tactical-Ochoa Charmcaster is a character who deserved so much better than what she got by the end of the original timeline. Actually, if we compare what happens with Kevin and Charmcaster in the sequels...
Kevin:
- Gets redeemed in the first episode of Alien Force and becomes a main character.
- Has multiple run ins with former adversaries but is supported by Ben and Gwen and helps overcome the troubles of his past.
- Becomes a better person morally while around the Tennysons.
- Despite going mad again from another mutation, he still becomes good again due to Gwen's complete faith in him.
- Becomes a normal member of society, a hero, and very close with Ben and Gwen.
Charmcaster:
- Returns in AF S3 as someone who is obsessed with Gwen on a personal level and her motivations are based around that (I'll ignore what happens in Time Heals as that was an alternate timeline)
- Then in UA she teams up with other villains to cause personal pain to the Tennysons by going after their family
- Then she becomes the ruler of Legerdomain and becomes good for one episode where she admits that she was jealous of Gwen's magical proficiency (the closest that she came to getting a redemption) and becomes temporary allies with the main characters.
- Then she does a 180 for no reason and kills the main trio the next time they meet to revive her dead dad only for him to reverse the spell because he thought it was cruel. This combined with her being used by Darkstar makes her a broken wreck at the end of UA.
- In Omniverse she has become crazy, turning all those who wronged her in the past into totems, still with a hatred of Gwen, and eventually she gets turned into a totem and stuffed into her own bag.
I don't know about anyone else, but I think that if the two situations were reversed (with some tweaks) it would make way more sense than what we eventually got. Charmcaster never seemed to be a evil person at heart, more of a rebellious girl under the bad influence of her uncle. A redemption could totally work for her as she becomes a better person due to the positive influence of Ben and Gwen. Her antagonistic motives in the OS were nowhere near as personal as Kevin's so they would be more willing to trust her (though for Gwen it would take a while). Given her personality she could've worked similar to almost a female version of Ben as a character, which would make her character interactions with Ben,Gwen and the other characters pretty funny. But anyways, she has the demons of her past to contend with as well, most notably Hex who for some reason makes up with her by the time Alien Force comes around. I think that a better idea would be to have her running away from Hex ever since he turned into a toddler, but eventually she would need to stop running and face him which could be a character arc for her.
Kevin on the other hand, was a psycho in the original who was obsessed with Ben. Pretty similar to the Joker actually, and the explanation of how "the powers made him do it" is mediocre at best - if Cletus Casady and the Joker are held responsible for their actions despite their insanity, why shouldn't Kevin? I think that he could've worked either as a vigilante or a villain in this regard. In fact I think that him randomly switching from alliance to antagonization of the Tennysons would work given that he's not completely sane, and any teamups would have an undertone of mistrust. I think that having his own character arcs paralleling Ben's would be cool to make him more 3D as a character but fundamentally his character is tied to a personal hatred of Ben.
TL;DR - Charmcaster deserved better while Kevin should've been the one who went down a path to what she did in the main timeline.
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@coreofthesun While Charmcaster did some evil things in the Original Series, she felt more like a victim of Hex's influence and abuse. Sure, you can say that Kevin is a victim of the unfortunate conditions that made him who he is. I guess the difference here is that in the Original Series, Kevin embraced what he's become or he's just too far gone or something of the likes. Charmcaster still has a chance to turn things around for the betterment of herself. She hasn't crossed that point of no return like Kevin has. In the Original Series, it felt like there's still hope (pun not intended) for her whereas it felt like Kevin was too far gone. And yeah, Cletus Kasady and Joker are victims of the circumstances that made them who they are, but it doesn't justify their actions. They still did horrible things and are rightly held accountable for them. Kevin tried to and did some horrible things himself. Therefore, whatever the reason behind why, he still needed to be held accountable for his actions.
I think there's also the matter of Kevin's son, Devlin. Something that I noticed is that it felt like Devlin and Charmcaster parallel each other quite significantly. That there's some elements about them that makes them similar to each other. I have this one idea of Charmcaster being Devlin's biological mother. I think that could be something that could be fitting to establish for both characters. I even incorporated that idea into the Devlin Levin redesign commission that I hired an artist to do for me almost a year ago.
https://twitter.com/TacticalOchoa/status/1289726781541371906 -
If we do return to the original continuity after omniverse I think it's best for Ben to have a new love interest using a brand new character.
If we get a rebooted Original Series continuation then we should go for Julie only this time it's executed better.
Either way no matter what continuity this is in Gwen needs to have a new relationship that isn't Kevin and most certainly not Ben.
You'll never find a safer place for all LGBTQ+ people than this Ben 10 Club profile.
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@npzman I personally think that Elena is a good choice for an Omniverse continuation. If that show happens I think that she'd be a really interesting character - she cares for Ben deeply but the nanochips augment her personal desires to the point of her being violent. Seeing her move past her mistakes, have her own arc where she struggles to control the chips and maybe get involved with Ben romantically could work if done right. Plus Ken possibly being half nanochip is such a cool idea imo. The better part of the fanbase would riot if Gwen and Kevin split up in an Omniverse continuation so that won't happen.
As for a rebooted original continuation, I still think that Elena could in fact be implemented better than she was in the main timeline. But yeah Julie could also work well if they actually made her an interesting character rather than just Ben's cute girlfriend. As for Gwen...idk if she were to have a different love interest then they'd probably have to introduce a new character. As I mentioned before I don't think that a new series should focus too much on romance because that isn't really one of the key strengths of the franchise
@Tactical-Ochoa Err...personally I'm not too big a fan of Hope being Devlin's biological mother, but I think that she could very well work as a mother figure to him in the future at the time that Ben is Ben 10,000, especially given their similar experiences. Both have an evil older relative (Kevin or Hex) of whom they have been a victim of pain throughout their childhood, both have abilities which made the outer world see them as freaks, both having to fend for themselves at the same time as doing their best not to become like said older relative. It could be a very interesting future timeline.
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@coreofthesun said in Returning to the Original Continuity:
As for Gwen...idk if she were to have a different love interest then they'd probably have to introduce a new character.
I wouldn't have it any other way.
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@coreofthesun I don't really have that same sentiment with Elena. I never really found her to be an interesting character. I found her to be pretty forgettable and bland. She just doesn't feel like a good fit for Ben. Despite how her and Ben view each other, I don't really see them having a good connection with each other. I'm not fond of the idea of Ken being part nanochip either. That sounds like a repeat of Gwen being half Anodite and the issues that created.
I just don't see anyone else who would be any better of an option for Ben to be in a relationship with than Gwen. Ben and Gwen just have too much of a good connection with each other for them to be in a relationship with any other characters that are not them. As for Ken, I think it would be better for him to be a magic user than for Ken to be part nanochip. I think that's a more fitting approach to him. Have Ken be like a jack-of-both-trades of Ben and Gwen, as in Ken has his own Omnitrix, like Ben, while also being able to use magic, like Gwen. Pretty much like with this Ken Tennyson redesign commission that I had that same artist do for me as well.
https://twitter.com/TacticalOchoa/status/1223643130802495488As for Devlin, I kind of see Gwen as more of a mother figure to Devlin than Charmcaster; especially considering that Ben adopted Devlin at the end of the Ken 10 episode, therefore Devlin would be spending much of his life being raised by the Tennyson family. Something to take note of about Charmcaster is that much like how Kevin represented Ben's evil opposite, Charmcaster represented Gwen's opposite as well. Something that I can see is how Kevin and Charmcaster could have a bit of a connection with each other...or at the very least have a temporary allegiance with each other for the sake of going after Ben and Gwen. This is something that's going on in Little Moments after all. I think it would just be more interesting and fitting for Charmcaster to be Devlin's mother. I think the connection between them is there to make it seem fitting here.
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@Tactical-Ochoa Fair points. It’s just that if there were to be an Omniverse continuation then a lot of options are ruled out. Julie and Ester certainly so, as well as Looma and Attea (who only really liked Ben for his prime alien forms). Which leaves Kai and Elena, neither of whom are great characters per se but I think that Elena has more potential even though she wasn’t implemented that well into UA. The half Anodite thing with Gwen was bad because it explained away her ability at magic as alien heritage rather than her earning it. Ken having the ability to control nanochips and technology to a degree doesn’t make him stupidly overpowered and differentiates him a little from Ben. But it’s just an idea and frankly a combination of the Ken whom we see in OS and OV would work out fine.
As I said in a new sequel literally any of the past love interests could work if they were implemented right.
I think that Charmcaster works as a parallel to Gwen but I think that this would be better seen if they were somewhat allies (and yet at the same time rivals) rather than being flat out antagonistical of each other like Ben and Kevin are. Also, I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t think that it is necessary for the children of villains to be a result of two major villains hooking up (even temporarily). I’m personally fine with Devlin’s mother being unknown and it doesn’t take away from who he is as a character.
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@coreofthesun In the case with Omniverse, the series has pretty much established that Ben and Kai started a relationship with each other. Therefore, it's likely going to be Kai that would be Ben's love interest in an Omniverse sequel and not Elena. Meanwhile, Elena barely even appeared in the show. I think she was only there for one episode and that was it.
And if they decide to take this statement by DJW into consideration, I guess Elena is no longer half nanochip. Granted, this is an outside statement and Omniverse doesn't actually showcase this so take it with a grain of salt.
https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/Ben_10_Planet?file=OV+Elena+Separated+From+Nanochips.pngBeing part nanochip wouldn't make him stupidly overpowered but I do think it would put Ken too much on the side of science fiction. Mixing science and magic together is something that I think would be more interesting and fitting for Ken. Like I said, balance.
And sure, Devlin's mother doesn't have to be Charmcaster. I just think it would be fitting if she is.
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@Tactical-Ochoa Cool, I wasn't aware of Wyatt's statements, but then again they aren't 100% reliable since he was mainly the art director for Omniverse.
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@coreofthesun True. A lot of statements from the teams that made these shows often conflicted with each other, and many statements from Wyatt tend to be taken by many with a grain of salt. It's one of the reasons why I rather prefer that creators don't make outside statements that establishes lore within their creations.
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Wyatt isn’t exactly that reliable when it comes to lore and often contradicts himself. So yes, I would not believe everything that he says. I appreciate him for being one of the only people still willing to answer questions about the franchise but he can come off as a jerk sometimes.
As for the topic...ngl I would absolutely love a new sequel to the original series to do it the justice it deserves in terms of continuity and tone. I wouldn’t mind an Omniverse sequel or Ken 10 so long as they are engaging shows, and an Omniverse sequel to give some kind of conclusion to the original timeline would be the most logical option I suppose
